tatsunokofan
Gatch Guru
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Registration Date: 03-12-2006
Posts: 1513
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Hi all!
Thank you for pointing those out. I had spotted them earlier, but I do appreciate the heads up.
As for the cels themselves, they are either publicity or mass market cels, not actually production cels. I say this because I actually own duplicates of both of those cels. Like those in the auction, the cels possess neither peg holes nor cut numbers along the top.
Regardless, for the price the seller is asking, they're nice enough images that they'd be worth getting, if anyone else wants to bid on them. Like I said, I already have them, so I won't be going after them myself.
By the way, the two Gel Sadra cels that the same seller has look to be production cels, and both are likely from the same scene, though I don't recognize the shot off the top of my head. Still, if you're looking for a couple of Gel Sadra cels for a good price, now's your chance!
| quote: | | Perhaps a blooper, or I suspect it maybe that colour because of what ever the background. If Ken were in a dark place then the artist may want us to be able to see through the visor to see his face. |
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If this had been a production cel, you could very well have been correct, as they do change the visor colors to reflect the lighting in the scenes. In this partiular instance, though, it was either a sloppy decision or a cost-cutting/time-saving move when they were mass producing the cel.
| quote: | | If I am correct that is only the overlay of a cell. That picture would probably be placed on a different background. |
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That's correct, that image is not placed against a background. Even with production cels, if they come with a background, it is infrequent that you'll find them with the proper background. Don't forget, for every shot you see, there could be dozens of cels, but there is only one background. So, you'll often find cels that have been placed against a variety of random, non-matching backgrounds that came from shots of things like hands or running feet, whose cels would likely be unsellable.
| quote: | | I am wondering if a sword would be placed in Ken's hand at that time as well. |
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By looking at Ken's belt, you'll notice that the holster on the right side of the belt is from Gatchaman II, so the Gatchaman Fencer would not have come into play. Had it been a publicity cel from Gatchaman Fighter, and had they wished to include the Gatchaman Fencer in the shot, it would have been drawn into the image from the start, which is how it is in the Gatchaman Fighter production cels I have. In the production of the show, the only reason they would have put the Gatchaman Fencer on separate cels would have been if the Gatchaman Fencer was moving, but Ken was not, allowing them to animate the weapon without having to redraw Ken in each cel.
James
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by tatsunokofan on 06-06-2009 at 13:18.
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05-06-2009 15:47
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clouddancer
Gatchamaniac
I am an Owl.
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| quote: | Originally posted by tatsunokofan
By looking at Ken's belt, you'll notice that the holster on the right side of the belt is from Gatchaman II, so the Gatchaman Fencer would not have come into play. had it been a publicity cel from Gatchaman Fighter, and had they wished to include the Gatchaman Fencer in the shot, it would have been drawn into the image from the start, which is how it is in the Gatchaman Fighter production cels I have. In the production of the show, the only reason they would have put the Gatchaman Fencer on separate cels would have been if the Gatchaman Fencer was moving, but Ken was not, allowing them to animate the weapon without having to redraw Ken in each cel.
James |
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Thank you for all that information James. You must have a really spectacular collection. Maybe the next time I am out your way visiting TJ I can make a visit to you as well to get a glimpse of some of your "stuff."
I do not know Gatch Fighter or Gatch II well enough to be able to tell the difference, as of yet. If I were to be honest, in my mind they are the same show,*** thus my mistake in thinking Ken could be carrying a sword.
***Although I do know there are differences when I think about it, I tend to clump them together as "not" the Gatch I know. I know, bad me, but I am still trying to figure out the differences between Gatch I and BOTP, given time and I may be able to work in another series as well.
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05-06-2009 23:04
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gatchgirl
Babbling Loonie
I am a Condor.
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Registration Date: 08-03-2006
Posts: 2444
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[quote]Originally posted by tatsunokofan
Hi all!
As for the cels themselves, they are either publicity or mass market cels, not actually production cels. I say this because I actually own duplicates of both of those cels. Like those in the auction, the cels possess neither peg holes nor cut numbers along the top.
[QUOTE]
That's correct, that image is not placed against a background. Even with production cels, if they come with a background, it is infrequent that you'll find them with the proper background. Don't forget, for every shot you see, there could be dozens of cels, but there is only one background. So, you'll often find cels that have been placed against a variety of random, non-matching backgrounds that came from shots of things like hands or running feet, whose cels would likely be unsellable.
[QUOTE]
James, so if a film strip has the holes along with a 4 digit number on one end, would that make it an original? There is also a 74-AJ and the words Fuji color N6 on the other side of the strip.
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" No gratitude needs to be voiced, your mind speaks to us!"
Racer by day, Feather Thrower all the time!
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06-06-2009 16:00
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tatsunokofan
Gatch Guru
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Registration Date: 03-12-2006
Posts: 1513
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Hi all!
| quote: | | James, so if a film strip has the holes along with a 4 digit number on one end, would that make it an original? There is also a 74-AJ and the words Fuji color N6 on the other side of the strip. |
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A film strip is a completely different animal than a cel. A cel being part of the production process that goes into making an animated production (Specifically an individual piece of artwork on a transparent piece of cel luloid (Hence the abbreviation "cel") that, when viewed in a sequence with a number of other pieces of art that have a similar image showing the subject in a slightly different pose from the others, gives the illusion of movement) and the film strip being the end result of that production (When the various cels are placed against a background and photographed in sequence onto motion picture film, resulting in a strip of film that, when projected, becomes an animated movie).
A film strip has holes so it can run through the sprockets of a film projector, while a cel has peg holes to make certain all the cels in a sequence are properly aligned when they are photographed in order to make the animation smooth. The numbers and other printed material along the edges of a film strip provide information such as the film's manufacturer, model number, and batch number, while the numbers on a cel designate which specific shot in a film the cel is from, and which spot in the sequence for that shot the cel belongs.
I hope this helps!
James
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by tatsunokofan on 07-06-2009 at 07:35.
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06-06-2009 16:34
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Hinotori
Babbling Loonie
I am an Eagle.
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Registration Date: 09-10-2007
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06-06-2009 20:55
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tatsunokofan
Gatch Guru
0 fics uploaded
Registration Date: 03-12-2006
Posts: 1513
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Hi all!
| quote: | | That is the problem with kids they never listen, they always have to do the opposite of what an adult tells them. |
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That's because they all possess a special filter that changes everything into "Do as you want, not what I say."
| quote: | | I would love to get my hands on a cel from the series (preferably Gatch, but any will do!). |
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For many, many years, getting a first series cel was one of those Holy Grail items for me, and it took until the late 1990s to finally track one down. Thankfully, I've found a decent selection of them since then. Second and third series cels are definitely easier to find, mostly because Tatsunoko had a system set up to sell their old cels by the time those series were airing, something they didn't have when the first series aired.
| quote: | | My B/H keeps telling me it's film... I just never imprint into my mind. |
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When compared directly, the two are unmistakably different. Here is a cel:
And here is a film strip:
Probably part of what has added to the confusion you have had between the two is the annoying fact that, over the last 15 years or so, numerous manufacturers have sold film strips from popular science fiction movies in nice display cases, and have usually referred to them as cels. Yes, they're made of celluloid, but they're not cels!
James
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07-06-2009 00:18
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I should read the rest of the posts before jumping to conclusions...
