tatsunokofan
Gatch Guru
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15-06-2007 16:16
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SJ_SwanJun
Forum Goddess
I am a Red Squadron.
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Registration Date: 26-04-2007
Posts: 2867
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Oh the cut down on smokers ... gah.
<note: not eliciting an argument, just setting forth an example>
Hey, it's still possible to be a fit monkey and be a smoker.
My darling boy Flash is a tree surgeon, he climbs trees, hauls brush, chainsaws, injects, cables from 6am until the darkness falls. He also plays baseball about 7000 times a week.
We call him the Flash because of his sheer speed. He can run 100 in 11 seconds flat, run all the bases in under thirty seconds, jump, flip, slide and and all that flamboyant bullshit. He can belt a baseball over 350 feet and throw with pin-point accuracy over 100 feet ... and not break a sweat, let alone breathe heavy ...
The only time you'll catch him short of breath and breathing heavy is <censored by management> ...
And he's 35 years old - has been smoking since he was fourteen. He kicks the asses of the younger guys on the University teams who don't smoke, drink, swear, etc.
He is one of the fittest people I have ever met; has a divine body (oh mrrowrr); and simply has boundless energy ... Lucky me!!
So, yeah. It's possible. Very possible. Smoking is really not as debilitating as the propaganda machine is suggesting - especially not to an 18 year-old ... 40 year old, maybe .... but an 18 year old?! Hardly ...
And okay, this comes from a smoker ... But I honestly don't see why it is so bad. Ciggies have always been associated with the rebel ... and Hell, with the anti-smoking movement in motion it IS defiant rebellion to light up a butt these days - make you feel like a damn criminal ... To have the team rebel having a smoke is fitting - absolutely fitting.
It is the ultimate "fuck you" to the establishment.
A cheap way of saying rebel? Yeah, but it works...
Back in the days when Gatch was first produced, lighting up a fag was great - hell you could even smoke in hospitals - It is only now that people are all freaked over it.
TBH - I would be more concerned with the air quality and pollution around the busy metropolis of Utoland than I would a ciggie. I mean, shit, with that much going on, all the cars, pollution and shit ...
oh and ...
Explosive residue, burnt gunpowder, fumes from accelerants used to perform the Hinotori attack, CO2 from burning buildings and vehicles, general carcinogens in the air from collapsing buildings during attacks ... to only mention but a few ... would be far more alarming, I would think, to the Condor than having a puff on a butt.
I like that someone has the balls to put a cig in the fingers of the Condor. Some people will be pissed off - which is perfect, that's the Condor!
MHO is that it fits. I always saw the shuriken chewing as him actually trying to quit ... LOL ...
But, again, that's me. I think the whole image, including the cigarette, is so hot I am turning Condor-girl instead of Eagle ... LOL!
I am still scared to see Jun.
Absolutely terrified.
Please keep her innocence and not turn her into a thing wearing painted-on t-shirts with double d perkies and low, low, low rise jeans that are as tight as the shirt, with the ....
Oh, look at the comics, the image with the team walking in civilian out from under the Phoenix ... if she looks like THAT I'll shoot myself.
But. ... God I love that Condor!! Yummmmm
SJ
Please don't flame me
__________________
Sighhh
Why do men snore when lying on their backs?
Because their balls fall over their butt holes and they vapour lock.
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15-06-2007 18:34
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SJ_SwanJun
Forum Goddess
I am a Red Squadron.
9 fics uploaded
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Actually, you know what?
The fact that people are annoyed that he has the ciggie - kinda works, don't ya think?
Perfect reaction he'd get from TPTB in the project:
"Oh my god, he's having a cigarette."
"Well, how can anyone expect to be a fighter with tar lungs?"
"Doncha know smoking is bad for you?"
"Bad role model for the kids."
And the list goes on ...
Makes sense, don't it? He's a rebel, and those kinds of reactions are EXACTLY what a rebel wants.
Go against the grain, so to speak ...
So, yeah. He with the butt is absolutely perfect!
Absolutely.
I mean, shit. If it can irk the viewing public - it muct drive Ken and the rest nuts ... LOL
I can see him ... on the command deck, patting his chest and pockets for a lighter as he puts a cigarette in his mouth.
Joe: Ahh, shit. I lost my lighter back in the base.
Ken: <looking up from his console> What?
Joe: <eyeballs the lever and smirks with the cigarette hanging from the corner of his mouth - he has a solution to his lack of flame problem> I think we need to go fiery, Commander.
Ken: <looking perplexed as he glances into the monitors to find no bogeys or what-not> Why?
Joe: We just do.
Ken: Why?
And ... it just get s stupid from there ...
<shrugs> I am soooooooooooooooooooo bored here at work today ... so bored .... so very bored ....
SJ
__________________
Sighhh
Why do men snore when lying on their backs?
Because their balls fall over their butt holes and they vapour lock.
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15-06-2007 18:51
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meridianday
Galaxy Girl
I am a Devilstar.
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Registration Date: 27-06-2001
Posts: 1640
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Japan has a huge quantity of smokers. Most of them male. But Joe never smoked in original Gatchaman, Gatchaman 2 or Gatchaman Fighter. The only place he smokes is in the OAVs. You see Nambu smoking, Katse smoking, Galactors smoking, President Anderson smoking, various allies of the ISO smoking. Gatchaman isn't a non-smoking series, but they're a non-smoking team.
All you've said above doesn't stop the characterisation of giving him a cigarette lazy, you admit that.
Just as you can't go into the business of bomb disposal as a smoker - ooh, it's a tense moment, I need a ciggy, never mind the explosive device that might be set off right next to me - I don't see how you can go into stealth mode in an enemy base with nicotine withdrawal either. Perhaps he's got nicotine patches built into his birdstyle? Or a ready supply of nicotine gum? Perhaps those withdrawal symptoms add to his angst?
Perhaps he's a social smoker and doesn't smoke enough to get withdrawal symptoms.
I'm not bashing smokers. I am bashing the idea of one of the KNT being a smoker, or at least an addicted smoker, in the same way as having them addicted to anything else would make it far more difficult to do their jobs. They've already got family crises and teenageness to deal with.
__________________
 Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny."
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15-06-2007 19:04
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CricketBeautiful
Forum God
I am a Zark.
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Registration Date: 04-04-2004
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Civvies? See, lost in the details. Definitely them, two have numbered shirts.
I like how Ryu is carrying Jinpei. Says a lot about the relationship and Jinpei's age.
No Jun in that shot. A missing team member story?
Ken's jeans are ripped and his shoulders are hunched. Yes! Not a preppie. His chest looks rather sunken, though; maybe just a bad moment to catch the shot.
Ryu, if not for the style being very thin, I'd say they made him too lean. I see him as fit young biker, or maybe some of the senseis at our dojo; muscles and flexibility and endurance definitely there, but a bit of padding as well.
If they're going for a rebel, I'll vote with Meridian; cigarettes are a cheap way to do it. If they're going for fatalistic (as in expects worse things to happen), it works for me. But notice the absence of swooning over here. You girls just head over to Joe, I'll stick here with Ken and Ryu.
__________________
Between stimulus and response there is a space.
In that space is our power to choose our response.
In our response lies our growth and our freedom.
- Viktor E. Frankl
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15-06-2007 19:09
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SJ_SwanJun
Forum Goddess
I am a Red Squadron.
9 fics uploaded
Registration Date: 26-04-2007
Posts: 2867
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| quote: | Originally posted by meridianday
<snip>
Just as you can't go into the business of bomb disposal as a smoker - ooh, it's a tense moment, I need a ciggy, never mind the explosive device that might be set off right next to me - I don't see how you can go into stealth mode in an enemy base with nicotine withdrawal either. Perhaps he's got nicotine patches built into his birdstyle? Or a ready supply of nicotine gum? Perhaps those withdrawal symptoms add to his angst?
Perhaps he's a social smoker and doesn't smoke enough to get withdrawal symptoms.
I'm not bashing smokers. I am bashing the idea of one of the KNT being a smoker, or at least an addicted smoker, in the same way as having them addicted to anything else would make it far more difficult to do their jobs. They've already got family crises and teenageness to deal with. |
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Oh you're too cute ... <grins>
Nicotine withdrawls aren't like withdrawls for heavy drugs. They pass very quickly (about five mins or so) and are more of a want than a dying need.
I find it a more habitual addiction than a chemical one ...
There is no cold sweating or vomiting or any such nonsense when you can't have a butt for a few hours - shit I do it all the time here at work. I did it through my pregnancy, and even took a 12 month sabbatical after the wisdoms came out. Most people are extremely capable of going a few hours or even days with no cigs ... So I can't see that as a viable argument for Joe nic-fitting in battle.
It's actually pretty cute (or is it scarey that propaganda does so well) that the lowly cigarette now apparently has the power that methamphetamines have over people.
There is no rehab for ciggies, cause ... well cause they simply aren't that potent! The only thing that Joe might suffer from if he was having a nic-moment would be to be a grumpy ass, which would actually serve him well to take it out on a galactor agent ... IT would make the fights with Ken interesting also ...
And ... uh ... a cig cannot set off C4, TNT, or even gasoline just FYI. Their transbonder bands would be a far greater danger in the face of set explosives than a cigarette would be. I've personally seen bomb squad operatives having a butt while disarming a weapon ... I fell on my ass laughing at him ...
I know you're not ragging we smokers, and I am seriously not trying to argue - just putting out my rebuttals.
But I think the fact that you're irritated over it, as many people will do, is probably exactly what the concept artist may have had in mind ... See how disgusted you are?
That's the point.
:wink:
__________________
Sighhh
Why do men snore when lying on their backs?
Because their balls fall over their butt holes and they vapour lock.
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15-06-2007 19:32
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meridianday
Galaxy Girl
I am a Devilstar.
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Registration Date: 27-06-2001
Posts: 1640
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I work in an office where nearly all my friends used to smoke (well, before the company made most of them redundant). I've watched them go through nicotine withdrawal - their ability to concentrate went right out of the window. I'm not talking about heroin type withdrawal, I'm talking about the nicotine withdrawal I've seen around me whenever anyone tried to give up. I didn't see it passing in 5 minutes, and passing it off as a few minutes of grumpiness just doesn't cover it. Call it three days of shouting at everyone, not being able to work properly, losing their tempers over the slightest little thing... additional stress and they were climbing the walls. I well remember the time when all the smokers decided to quit together for mutual support - I think they lasted 6 hours. I watched my husband quit - that was far, far more than a bad mood and a need to have something to fiddle with and chew on.
But it affects everyone differently. There were a couple of guys who were just able to stop without any problems at all and just needed to fiddle with pens and chew gum to keep themselves busy. Perhaps you respond in the same way as them? It's not that difficult for everyone, I agree. But if everyone felt like that, it'd be easier for everyone who wanted to stop to manage to stop, wouldn't it?
If Joe had the unpleasant end of the nicotine withdrawal, it would make things extremely awkward on missions.
But we're arguing over preferences. You're a smoker who loves smoking and finds smokers sexy. I'm not. We're never going to agree on this nor are we ever going to be able to persuade each other. You may be relieved to know that I don't agree with all the anti-smoking legislation that's going on. I'm not rabid about it, I just find it unrealistic for any member of the team to be a regular, addicted smoker. And if he's just smoking as he's walking along the street, rather than with another bunch of people smoking, then he probably is. I find it as unattractive and unrealistic as any member of the team being an alcoholic.
It's not a realistic series, it's huge giant robots stomping on cities and teenagers flying on flexible wings. But everyone needs some level of believability to make it work for themselves and that's one of mine. You're right, Joe with a ciggy has wound me up. I don't think it's what the artist is trying to achieve, but then I don't know the political attitude to smoking wherever that artist is based. I still think it's the rebel shortcut, same as the OAVs. Heh, this Joe wears a shirt and doesn't have a leather jacket, I could be wrong.
You know, I'm surprised they're sticking with the numbered shirts.
Anyway, the lack of Jun in the artwork has made me wonder something - could they be using a bit of the Jigokillers plot in there? They're all outside without Jun because she's missing in action?
__________________
Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny."
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15-06-2007 20:09
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SJ_SwanJun
Forum Goddess
I am a Red Squadron.
9 fics uploaded
Registration Date: 26-04-2007
Posts: 2867
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Meridian. Thanks. Thanks for not getting your panties in a bunch over this - I was a little worried I might offend or something.
I like you, I don't want to do that.
So thanks.
You're right, absolutely. Withdrawl is different to everyone. Flash gets moody when he's low on the smoke, I do it pretty well, as did most people here in my office when they quit - we went from 30 smokers to five in 12 months.
But when you're in a situation where you can't, absolutely can't have a ciggie - you tend not to even think about it. Boredom is when the withdrawl comes in, I find anyway....
But I also don't smoke a pack a day, never have. I am more social than anything.
I honestly don't find smokers sexy. I think smoking is very ugly. I see the girls I am with and am mortified thinking "do I look like that? Oh god, yuk" Therefore, I only smoke as an excuse for a break.
It is repulsive. I hate the smell. Flash is at his unsexiest when he has a butt hanging from his lip. But, heck ... what can ya do?
uh ... quit? LOL!
I find the new Joe sexy because of the way he seems to hold himself in the picture. Ken is slouchy and ... hmm ... almost adolescent. Joe seems more confident and his way of dress is a hit for me.
I love me a good muscle shirt and yummy arms (I am an arm and chest girl) ..
Honestly, at first glance I didn't see the ciggie - I just gaped at the yummyness, then looked closer and thought "Ooh, nice touch"
heh heh ...
And Jun in peril? :wibble: Great cos I love angst, but Not so hot on it in a movie.
I don't want her to end up the damsel in distress ... not unless she kicks some serious ass, sets the base for detonation and is leaning against the doorframe looking at her watch and clicking in disappointment in response time when the guys actually show up.
Character distress really only works, to me, if it is during a series, not in a movie. The whole point of the movie is to show the strength of the unit and the team. To have one of them under duress would hurt that somewhat, right?
Or am I not making sense again?
__________________
Sighhh
Why do men snore when lying on their backs?
Because their balls fall over their butt holes and they vapour lock.
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15-06-2007 20:29
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meridianday
Galaxy Girl
I am a Devilstar.
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Registration Date: 27-06-2001
Posts: 1640
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I hate the smell too. Me and the hb met at work and he was a 20+ a day smoker at the time. A whole gang of us would go to the pub almost every evening and I'd be the only non-smoker there, and it's like being a magnet for smoke if you're the only one not smoking. Most of the people who only ever smoked in the pub told me they only took up smoking because it made other people's smoke less annoying.
I think for those who are badly chemically addicted, wanting a cigarette happens whether they're bored or not because it's a physical craving. I used to work with one guy who was so horribly addicted that he'd get the shakes if he had to go an hour without a cigarette. He was a very heavy smoker though. Didn't take it up until he was 22 or so either, and I think I met him when he was 25, so he must have really gone for it to make up lost teenage years  He told me he addicted himself by smoking so much dope at uni and getting hooked on tobacco that way.
I know I don't tend to want chocolate unless I'm bored, but that's the closest thing to an addiction I have. And it's an emotional compulsion rather than a physical addiction (must cut down, must cut down etc, I have some 70% cocoa solids bars just sitting in the kitchen waiting for me to go in there and look at them...) Maybe I've got Ryu's addiction. Comfort food. Or is that Tiny's?
You're right about Joe's stance. It's not the feral stance he's so famous for. He does look confident, standing there adjusting his sunglasses. It's the way he and Ken are standing that made me think of the Jigokillers. Ken being so depressed because he feels he's just killed Jun, and Joe just wanting to get back out there and kill Galactors. Ken's posture in that pic looks really miserable. Ryu could be carrying Jinpei as a comfort thing. That building they're next to probably isn't the Snack J but it makes me think of it.
That must be Jun's silhouette we can see most clearly in the Invasion pic.
I think the damsel in distress thing has become sufficiently unfashionable for them not to do it like that. Can't be definite of course, but they'd be crazy to do it. I think your suggestion would work well - the guys turn up and she's rescued herself and left them 30 seconds to escape.
Most probably I am reading far too much into that Utoland pic.
Dunno. Maybe I should try to get to see the TMNT movie. Maybe I could get a feel for the company's attitude towards female characters from that.
__________________
Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny."
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15-06-2007 21:52
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LOL
