Transmute Jun
Queen of the Bird Missiles
I am a Swan.
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Registration Date: 04-04-2007
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02-09-2008 23:45
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lborgia88
Gatchamaniac
I am a Condor.
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Registration Date: 27-06-2007
Posts: 5991
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Well, I think some parallels could be drawn between their appearances, at least.
Sosai X's image in Gatch I did look like a chicken (as Katse too resembled an animal, a cat) but had the cleanest, simplest lines and used few colours, as Katse's costume was also (for a super villain) cut along fairly elegant lines, and used just purple, red and black.
Gel Sadra's costume was way too busy and all over the place, with too many colours -she looked like a clown- and even Sosai X's image became more complicated-looking but (to me) less effective.
As for the scary image of Leader Z in Gatch F, maybe they were shooting for something that would match the sinister/goth/romantic vibe that Egobossler had going, with his fencing swords, wine goblets, castles...
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03-09-2008 17:33
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Condorfan
Master Boardie
I am a Condor.
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Registration Date: 01-09-2006
Posts: 614
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| quote: | Originally posted by lborgia88
Well, I think some parallels could be drawn between their appearances, at least.
Sosai X's image in Gatch I did look like a chicken (as Katse too resembled an animal, a cat) but had the cleanest, simplest lines and used few colours, as Katse's costume was also (for a super villain) cut along fairly elegant lines, and used just purple, red and black.
Gel Sadra's costume was way too busy and all over the place, with too many colours -she looked like a clown- and even Sosai X's image became more complicated-looking but (to me) less effective.
As for the scary image of Leader Z in Gatch F, maybe they were shooting for something that would match the sinister/goth/romantic vibe that Egobossler had going, with his fencing swords, wine goblets, castles... |
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Your thoughts seem to explain a lot for me, LB. I personally like the simple design of X from Gatchaman but that could be because it's the one I'm most familiar with.
I have a question--was it ever really explained what X was? I know at the end of Gatch I that he was an alien from another planet that had exploded but what was his purpose in attacking the Earth? Was it his idea or was he just representing his planet?
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Old age is a high price to pay for maturity.
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04-09-2008 14:52
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Barrdwing
Exalted Member
I am a Zark.
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Registration Date: 11-08-2008
Posts: 232
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That's a really good question, condorfan. I don't recall that they ever really explained--in the original series, anyway--why he was so fixated on conquering Earth in particular. All the information viewers were given indicated only that he had been sent by his home planet to capture Earth, and he was determined to do that no matter what it took. But near the end of Gatch I's second season, his home planet abruptly blew up. The explosion was observed from Earth (which says some interesting things about either his homeworld's physical proximity to Earth, or the lack of faster-than-light drive in X's spaceship and how OLD his standing orders were!). When X learned that his planet was destroyed, he lost all interest in conquering Earth, packed up his bags, and abandoned Katse and everything he'd built in Galactor.
According to James (I had to ask), there is more to the story, but it was sort of retro-fitted in. In Gatch II and also in some of the planning for the movie, X's interest in Earth was revealed to lie in its strategic location halfway between Proxima and Andromeda. X's home planet was embroiled in a war with another planet, and as it turned out, Earth's Sun was the proper type and in the right location to create a special weapon against the enemy. Hence X's determination to conquer Earth in the original series. His return to Earth in II was apparently driven by a desire for revenge: he wanted to strike back at the enemy planet and Earth's Sun still provided the best means to do so (i.e. the Solar Shift Plan). He was also willing to be even more ruthless at this stage.
James comments that although in II the Black Hole Plan is clearly outlined as the purpose that X is trying to fulfill, things aren't so clear in Fighter, where we're left with the impression that Z is trying to conquer Earth largely out of spite and ill-will. I haven't seen all of Fighter myself, and what I have seen I can't translate, so I have no idea myself. 
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Barrdwing on 04-09-2008 at 16:24.
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04-09-2008 15:48
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Barrdwing
Exalted Member
I am a Zark.
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Registration Date: 11-08-2008
Posts: 232
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Hi all!
James here, using Heather's computer while mine is busy...
| quote: | | I'm a little confused about the "Black Hole Plan" though -wasn't that the Gatch I plan, and the Gatch II plan was called the Solar Shift plan? |
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Yes, it was. Heather noticed her error and edited it just before she left for work, but a little too late, apparently.
Much of the vagueness regarding X's motives in the original series stems from the original concept behind X. In the series Planning Establishment, X is described as follows:
"[Gallactor's] headquarters is hidden deep underground within the Himalayan mountains. From here, they give orders to their cells in other nations. At the heart of the headquarters is Berg Katse, the man claiming to be the leader, as well as several hundred of his subordinates. The headquarters is completely automated. But, Berg Katse is only seen as the leader on orders from the enigmatic Governor, who actually gives Berg Katse his orders. No one except Berg Katse is allowed to see the appearance of this Governor.
The Governor's voice is ominous, and absolute in its authority. It even keeps Berg Katse in complete submission. Who is this dreaded, mysterious man X, the Governor......? In reality, he is a super-size computer produced to the best of Berg Katse's proud super abilities. The viewers will only be informed of this in the finale. Until then, the Governor will be kept vague."
This is slightly hinted at in episode #21, "Who is Governor X," when Dr. Henjinman apparently realizes that X is nothing more than a computer.
Chief Director Hisayuki Toriumi explained part of what led to the change in direction regarding X in a 1978 interview when he said, "...Katse was supposed to have been the real X, having built up this fictitious character in order to manipulate people. That was how they were first envisioned. But it's difficult to express a notion like that in animation. So we ended up taking that image and used it as the starting point for what to do with this fellow. Hence the interpretation of Governor X gradually drifted away from this concept."
This notion of X being a Katse-created computer was even used when the series staff did their initial outlines for the finale. In it, Katse has switched sides and is now working with the Science Ninja Team to defeat X. When Katse helps them get to X's control room, X shoots Katse with a beam, and as he dies, Katse explains, "Governor X is a computer I created. But the computer multiplied itself, until finally it began giving me orders. Then it took command away from me."
Obviously, this was not the way things turned out when they actually got around to producing the final episodes. But their apparent reluctance to entirely abandon this concept is likely part of the reason why we don't learn of X's alien origins until the very end of the series. By that point, there wasn't really time to delve into his exact motivations.
As Heather mentioned, there was some thought given to this when Tatsunoko began working on the movie and the second series. In an early scenario draft of the movie, the newly-created prologue was going to include the Narrator saying, "Two million light years in space is the Andromeda Nebula. It is said to hold 200 billion worlds. This one is the planet Select Star. For a long time, Select Star has continued a furious war with the planet Fueless Star. Impatient for victory, Select Star launched an operation to change the solar system into a Black Hole, planning to draw Fueless Star into the vortex. Bearing this mission, the mysterious being X was secretly sent to Earth. Within the mountains of Earth, the mysterious being X constructs a secret headquarters, and choosing male and female humans to create a mutant, he appoints the leader of the secret society Gallactor. The name he is given is Berg Katse. Calling himself Governor X, the mysterious being X commands that the International Science and Technology Organization's ongoing Mantle Plan be destroyed. While Berg Katse burns with desire to be Earth's conqueror, pledging to obey Governor X's orders, he is unaware of X's true intention to change the solar system into a Black Hole. Berg Katse immediately launches into action."
Much of this would have taken place over visuals that were very similar to what eventually appeared in the prologue of the film, of X flying through space, landing in the Himilaya, and creating Katse, though the film played these scenes without narration. Instead, the first voice we hear is X himself after he has reached Earth and is creating Katse, where he explains that he is X, a "messenger from space," and that he is creating Katse to be his arms and legs, but neglects to get into pesky details about why he came to Earth in the first place.
All mention of the planet Fueless Star might have vanished into the ether had at article about the Gatchaman movie in the August, 1978 issue of Animage (Which was published in early July, 1978, just before the movie was released) hadn't mentioned this excised story idea as part of the "Story Digest" portion of the article.
By the way, as an aside, it should be noted that X's homeworld in the first series was named Selector Star. For reasons unknown, when the radio drama was being produced, the name of this planet was shortened to Select Star. It remained Select Star through the Gatchaman movie and the runs of Gatchaman II and Gatchaman Fighter.
Anyway, when Gatchaman II was being developed, the Planning Establishment explained the reason for Governor X's return as follows:
"At the conclusion of the previous production, Governor X's homeworld, Select Star, was unexpectedly destroyed. The Milky Way is in-between Select Star, within the Andromeda Nebula, and Proxima, in Centaurus, whose border is nearest to our solar system, and which was in a lengthy war that caused the destruction of Select Star. Governor X is a lunatic warrior of space, but his ability to fight was not destroyed along with the world of his birth. His main goal is to destroy our solar system, turning it into a Black Hole, so that both Proxima and our solar system will be buried in a different dimension with a single stroke. This is the reason Governor X returned to Earth, made Gel Sadra the leader of Gallactor, and manipulated numerous Earthmen (High government officials from various countries of the world, scientists, guerilla leaders, and more, people from every field); to use Earth as a base from which to make the sun into a Black Hole. The outcome of this plan is not known to Gel Sadra or to viewers. It is slightly understood only by the cyborg Joe, the Condor, and Dr. Raphael."
This description was accompanied by this handy graphic:
As you can see, they did actually intend to use another Black Hole Operation, this time titled "Solar System Black Hole Operation," in the second series. Most likely, someone figured that going with another Black Hole Operation would seem a bit too redundant, and chose to change the master plan to the Solar Shift Plan instead.
When the Gatchaman II was actually in production, it was not until the last episode of the series that we found out exactly why X had crafted the Solar Shift Plan. While the idea of destroying the world that destroyed Select Star remained intact, this world was not named Fueless. Instead, the only designation we are given for it is "Planet 013,001 of the Proxima System."
The Planning Establishment for Gatchaman Fighter gives a single sentence explanation for the motivations of Governor Z, "In order to avenge Governor X, Governor Z is working to cause the destruction of the Earth." Pretty basic, but we are talking about a being whose core is nothing more than a small leftover fragment of Governor X, so maybe we shouldn't expect too much from him.
Again, this is probably more than you cared to know, but I hope it helps explain a few things!
James
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Barrdwing on 04-09-2008 at 19:15.
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04-09-2008 19:11
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tatsunokofan
Gatch Guru
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Registration Date: 03-12-2006
Posts: 1513
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Hi all!
| quote: | | Joe as a gardener? I've never heard of that one? Is that why the early drawing of Joe with a dart in hius teeth looks like a flower? |
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In an early planning stages for the series, a basic chart describing the main cast of characters was drawn up. Part of that chart listed things like their hobbies and their goals in life, just to give the staff an idea of what they were like. Much of it was changed or altered as the planning, and eventually the series, progressed. For Joe's goals, as listed on that chart, he wanted to go into landscape garden management and flower making. That is indeed why the model sheets for Joe in his civilian clothes show him with a flower in his mouth (Not a shuriken that looks like a flower, but an actual flower).
That flower in Joe's mouth actually appears in episode #23, "The Giant Raging Mecha-Ball," though much of that can probably be blamed on that episode having a Director and Key Animators who had never worked on the show before and were simply following the model sheets provided to them.
| quote: | | I guess they used a lot of those ideas in the finale of Gatch II (in that Gel Sadra realized what had created HER, and she switched sides). |
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Kind of, only the series finale outline gives different reasons for Katse switching sides (Since, of course, that version had X being created by Katse, not the other way around). In it, Katse finally loses favor with X, and is replaced by 8 Executive Captains, all of whom he is subordinate to. Once he is captured by the Science Ninja Team, he has no reason to remain loyal to X, and tells his captors where Gallactor's Headquarters is located. This sets things up for a drawn out final series of battles as the Ninja Team fights their way past the Executive Captains to finally reach Governor X.
James
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04-09-2008 21:58
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