TheSolarSailor
Junior Member
I am a Galactor.
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Registration Date: 06-05-2011
Posts: 54
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Your opinions on Gatchaman Fighter
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This show, from what I have read, seems to be the most criticized, having come to a point of utilizing the exact same resolution many times over...a tiresome pattern and an excuse to use a new Ninja Team technology not seen before. Still, from what I have read in plot synopsis from various websites, the show still manages to offer some interesting material as well. In the book, G-Force Animated, it says the following:
| quote: | | The last of the three television series was called Kagaku Ninjatai Gatchaman Fighter; Its forty-eight episodes ran from October tth of 1979, premiering one week after the end of Gatchaman II, to August 31st of 1980. The team confronted a new kind of evil as they faced Count Egobossler, the heir of Galactor's evil empire. Most fans regard Fighter as the inferior of the three shows because the characters' motivations had changed heavily and violence seemingly became the main focus of this series. For example, what was a major character role reversal, Ken became vicious and heartless while Joe was made to be passive. Yet there were highlights that made the show interesting, such as the death of Dr. Nambu and Ken's struggle with a degenerative illness brought on by the technology that the Ninja Team uses. The overall quality of the animation had fallen compared to the two prior incarnations and the ratings had slipped; for a while it appeared that these characters had reached the end of the line. |
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I have the first four episodes of this series on a bootleg VHS tape with subtitles made by fans of the series. While of interest, I can see why the ratings slipped, as the repetitiveness in story structure already began to emerge. I didn't get far enough into the series to see the big change in Ken and Joe to the extent that is described above. Still, I really like the new villain, Count Egobossler, and an attempt is made to make him more interesting than the last villain we encountered, Gel Sadra from Gatchaman II. Still, they ultimately failed to live up to the legacy of Berg Katse from the original, from what I have read about the show. Tatsunoko's animation director is quoted as having said, "Really, it was the TV stations and sponsors who controlled (these two sequel series). I thought they were just so-so, and it wasn't necessary to keep making more of the same thing." From the sounds of it, Gatchaman Fighter was ultimately a last gasp at making money off the popular title. Still, I would love to get an opportunity to view the series for myself. I noticed it was available on Youtube, so I have been considering reading the plot synopsis and then watching the Japanese language episodes to see what I can get from it.
Anyhow, what are your impressions of the series? Do you think it is the least satisfying, or do you think they did a good job of wrapping up the story overall? Do you think it stayed true to what made Gatchaman so great to begin with? Please share with me your own impressions, criticisms, or favorites ideas from Gatchaman Fighter!
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 Z is my codeword for murder!
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21-05-2011 14:43
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gatchamarie
Gatchamaniac
I am an Eagle.
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SolarSailor ... you've asked a question which I wish to answer by taking my time to do so! Believe me ... I'd never end writing about the subject, with all its pros and cons, but unfortunately today I don't have much time or energy to do so!
I totally agree with the repetitiveness aspect! It's something that is immediately recognisable from the beginning! But, this notwithstanding, and even notwithstanding the fact that this last series is much darker than the others, Gatch F is still the series closest to my heart ... perhaps also because I was able to watch it by itself over and over again when I was a child! In fact, from the three series Gatchaman and Gatch F are the ones I like most! I have nothing against Gatch II, but I find the villains of the first and last series more interesting than Gel Sadra, together with their plots! I might also add that, perhaps, Egobossler is even the villain I prefer! He had a style of his own and, for me, his tactics were more credible, not leaving out his own story, which we came to know earlier during the series, and which IMHO made us able to get closer to the character!
Yes ... some of the episodes of Gatch F could seem a bit lame, but when the ending nears there's no doubt that things become more interesting! The Team's exasperated struggles, tired from the long war and from the illnesses which hit the two major characters, the accumulating tension magnificently described towards the end, and Nambu's death contributed to the deserved ending the whole series had! ... even if we have been left with a huge cliffhanger ... an aftermath which I really have wished to come to know! At least, we were left with the ability of coming up with ample self-constructed ideas in order to write them into sequel ficcies!
The Gatchaspartan, IMO, is a huge upgrade from the Chicken! I liked the idea of the Fencer ... what I really disagree with is the way in which the Fencer was handled as a last weapon! It's something that goes against all theories, that of someone (ie Ken) standing on a flying Gatchaspartan with so much ease against all forces in order to split a mecha in two! Why did he need to stand on top, and outside the aircraft? ... why couldn't they have attributed the power of the hypershoot just to the G1 vehicle, as a whole, which could have detached itself from the rest of the Gatchaspartan if they really wanted Ken to undergo all that he had in fact undergone? I think this would have been more plausable as a weapon!
On this last note, maybe this is another thing which acted against this series ... the fact that every episode, and mecha ended with a hypershoot attack, lacking a lot in action!
Another thing which for me seemed very interesting is the switch in the characters of Ken and Joe! I don't find this awkward ... not at all! It might be only me, but I can understand how life and war could have taken the toll over these characters (obviously not leaving out the others!)! Ken had all the reasons not to stay put after all that he has gone through, after his great responsibility being still so young, and after all that he had seen in front of his eyes! Joe's story is nothing less! Isn't that enough as an excuse for them to see everything differently and for their characters to change?!
I'm just going to mention two episodes which stayed imprinted into my mind and which describe this clear change in characters! Both occur in the span of the last three episodes of the series! The one related to Joe is when the Condor walks away from the Team, alone and in silence, very much low in morale, before they went for their last mission to save the world! A mission which they all knew there was a great potential for it to be their last! It was as if the Condor wanted to end everything the faster he could, tired of everything! The other episode concerning Ken happened when the Team were inside Sosai Z, exactly when they found the corpse of Egobossler! The Ken who once had pitied Katse because of his/her history, didn't even wince at the macabre scene, differently from the others, and after he saw a picture of Egobossler's mother in the chain the villain had hanging down his chest, he said in a sarcastic voice, "So ... Egobossler was human after all!"
But, this switch in characters acted also as a counterbalance for the two! Joe was of great help when Ken faulted ... just like Ken had been when things happened the other way round!
Well, as I said, I better stop here! Sorry for perhaps not having been clear with my writing ... I'm in a little hurry, and when I'm in a hurry my English is not that good! Will surely like to talk more about the subject in the future! Thanks for bringing it up!
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To be or not to be a gatchamaniac - that's the dilemma!
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21-05-2011 16:49
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ChrisW
Gatchamaniac
I am an Eagle.
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Registration Date: 16-01-2012
Posts: 4648
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Hi, new member here.  I just finished a rather epic (obsessive) watching through Gatchaman, Gatchaman II, and Gatchaman Fighter in rapid succession. (I have so much love for the person who uploaded all of it to YouTube.) Let me start by saying that I don't speak Japanese and couldn't find scripts/summaries for all of the GF episodes, so I'm going from what I observed and from some overall GF series summaries I found. It's all just my interpretation, yadayadayada.
I have to say that I understand the character arcs/changes in Ken and Joe as well. Ken started out fairly innocent and quite heroic. He's lost so many people and seen so much, and every time he wins peace for the world some other idiot allies with the genocidal alien and starts things all over again. I'd be pretty pissed off too. By the time Egobossler comes around he's taking it kind of personally, which again, is understandable. Honestly by the end I think he's just tired and is ready to go.
It was one thing to lose his father (essentially twice), who was really more of an idea to him than a person. Here he is dying and losing Nambu was more truly like losing his father. Where I think the writers messed up is that the whole rest of the team just stood there in shock. I really would have expected them to mostly explode (at least Joe), and maybe run rampant for a bit without Nambu to keep them in check and talk them down.
So anyway, Ken getting colder and jaded makes total sense to me. I don't see how he could possibly stay the somewhat trusting innocent he was early in the original series through all of that. Also, except for the very end of GF, I did see him even in that series smile and laugh, which I wasn't expecting after reading various series' commentary/summaries. So that was a pleasant surprise.
Joe starts out wild and out of control, living only for revenge. He learns family and being part of a team throughout the 3 series, and he's essentially died twice already, which I think gives people some perspective. He's had to face the fact that there's more to life than revenge as well when he decides it's worth living at the beginning of GF. Throughout all 3 series, as well, he and Ken have balanced each other, talking (or punching) each other down from the cliff so to speak.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents Canadian.
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18-01-2012 09:54
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lborgia88
Gatchamaniac
I am a Condor.
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Registration Date: 27-06-2007
Posts: 5991
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| quote: | Originally posted by ChrisW
(I have so much love for the person who uploaded all of it to YouTube.) |
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That would be Yul -she's a member here too.
I've noticed that even in the first series, Ken shifts somewhat from being enthusiastic about the excitement and heroism of battling Galactor and sure that good will triumph over evil, to being more stressed, bitter and depressed -lashing out at Dr. Nambu that they only react to Galactor's attacks instead of taking the initiative, sitting at his father's grave and talking about the "blood on his hands" etc. It does make a lot of sense that by Gatch F, he'd really be starting to crack.
I too have always seen Ken and Joe as sort of each others counterpart/complement. Yes, it is fitting that Joe, over the three series, would make a different internal journey but one that leads to him being, as ever, the necessary balance to Ken by the end of Gatch F.
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18-01-2012 17:27
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Transmute Jun
Queen of the Bird Missiles
I am a Swan.
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Registration Date: 04-04-2007
Posts: 20978
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I agree with what is being said here. I've always felt that Ken developed these strong emotions years before, likely during the original Gatchaman run, as LB says, but was able to repress them. But then the mental stress he endures in Gatchaman Fighter, not to mention the additional physical strains of the Hypershoot illness, would erode his ability to hide his emotions, essentially causing him to swing from mood to mood, on some kind of emotional rollercoaster. It's interesting that Joe becomes the more calm amd measured of the two, but I think that is partly in comparisoon... Ken has taken such a wild swing that Joe's reaction appears downright staid at times.
Yes, having 'died' twice definitely makes Joe more serious, and in addition, he's getting older, and seeing life less as a rash young teenager and more as a serious adult man. That's not an unreasonable change over the 6 years or so the three series are supposed to encompass.
Now let's not talk about Jinpei, and how he should have actually 'grown up' during those 6 years... 
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18-01-2012 18:17
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gatchamarie
Gatchamaniac
I am an Eagle.
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Registration Date: 18-06-2009
Posts: 5129
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What's being said is utterly true! You seem to have obtained the right impression on the sequel series, following Gatchaman, Chris! I totally agree with what you're saying about both Ken's and Joe's characters! Don't wish to repeat myself, but their change in behaviour is very understandable, and that's one thing I liked in all three series ... the characters matured along with the storyline! Well ... Jinpei might have been the exception, even if he did have his serious moments and maturity in thought sometimes! But, I think his being left childish was the outcome of wishing to keep that youngest child team member aspect throughout the whole story, creating the saga of a five member team having a child (reflecting the innocence, the silliness, and the most unexperienced) as the fifth member, if I'm explaining myself well!
By now, I think everyone knows that I'm a Gatch F geek, even if I don't deem myself as knowing all the particulars, especially because it's a long time since I've rewatched the episodes, so it's very heartwarming to hear your positive view on this third series, Chris! I agree that after reading reviews of the series, one could have a wrong impression at first, but albeit its defects (which I might have mentioned already) Gatch F isn't that bad at all! It's darker ... yes ... and it also has some pecularities, but it's also nice to watch and understand! Understanding the dialogue is very important too, since the dialogue in Gatch F tells a lot more than the images alone, and is very intense and explanatory at times! I recall you saying that it made you cry, too ... good to know I'm not the only one, especially during the final episodes!!
Ken's and Joe's competition to sacrifice themselves culminated itself during these last episodes, when they even verbally declared that they'd have fought against each other to see who'd have been the one! LOL ... if it weren't for the "childish" Jinpei, who had come up with a brilliant, alternate idea to solve the problem, they'd have ended up not being either one or the other, since their similar capabilities would have led them to kill each other instead!
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To be or not to be a gatchamaniac - that's the dilemma!
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19-01-2012 10:48
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gatchamarie
Gatchamaniac
I am an Eagle.
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Registration Date: 18-06-2009
Posts: 5129
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Well ... the dialogue I'm used to hear is a direct translation from Japanese to Italian, as Italian channels aired all three series as soon as they managed to distinguish Gatchaman from BotP! So I don't know whether it's 100% accurate or not! The most things that vary are the names of people and locations, but the rest does make a lot of sense, though! Through the years, I've also learnt to trust in Italian dubbing since they always tend to do a great job!
Making sense out of body posture or body language can help a lot in understanding what could be going on but, again, much could be misinterpreted or lost especially when expressions are vague! Saying this, I'm remembering something which has kept itself impressed in my mind ... something which Joe had said when the whole Team was once gathered to discuss upon a situation, and the rest of the Team members were all against Ken because, in their eyes, they thought he had taken a bad decision as the Commander! If you're only looking at them, and hearing words which you don't understand, you'd think they're only discussing and forwarding out their views about the situation! Joe had immediately understood what Ken had in mind, and that his Commander had acted kind of selfishly, also jeopardising people's lives for some time in that case, because he had an ulterior plan, which at the end worked perfectly! When all the others had eventually understood that what Ken had done had indeed a bigger purpose, and felt awkward for having thought badly about Ken, Joe said, "That shows what a great Commander we have!" ... a few words, which combined with the others, show the respect Joe had for Ken, and their consequent, consensual nodding wrapped all this aspect up!
As to the tears, there's nothing to be ashamed of! We're only humans!
__________________
To be or not to be a gatchamaniac - that's the dilemma!
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20-01-2012 08:23
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