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Posted by Transmute Jun on 01-06-2007 at 17:24:
ITA! Keep going Ebony!!!!!!
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Posted by tatsunokofan on 01-06-2007 at 23:51:
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Hmmm, I haven't read the story, but from this line alone I can see that an old inaccurate chestnut has reared its ugly head, specifically Egobossler's name. Egobossler's first name is not "Helm." As we wrote for a "Gatchaman Myths & Truths" article in the 3rd GatchaCon fanzine;
"Technically his last name probably isn't Egobossler either. As explained in "Gatchaman Fighter" #27, he is the illegitimate son of Great Count Egobossler and Margot, one of the Count's maids. He was raised by his mother, who named him Erun, not Helm. This name is backed up during the ending credits of the episode, where Hideyuki Tanaka is given credit for doing the voice of Erun. This spelling is also verified in magazine articles of the period that covered "Gatchaman Fighter.
Margot only told Erun who his real father was as she was dying from a beating by the Count. Enraged by his mother's death, Erun had his face altered to match that of the Count's legitimate son, Kaseru, as well as having his skin colored blue and his hair colored white. Erun then killed the Count, and locked Kaseru away. Erun was then free to pass himself off as Kaseru, taking the Egobossler title, power, and most importantly, the Egobossler name for himself."
I don't mean to sound like I'm jumping on you with spiked boots or anything, but it's just frustrating to see myths that you thought had finally had a stake driven through their heart come back to life.
James
Posted by amyltrer on 02-06-2007 at 04:50:
Thank you for the bit of information. It's very hard to find something about him on the internet, and the only sites who gave details ( Chronicsite and Vacuforum) named him Helm. So I'll keep using this name in my fanfics.
I agree with Egobossler not being his true name. Did the old Count know he was his son?
Is there something else about his background? The way he spent his childhood, the relation with his mother.
From what I've seen in screenshots, he only shot his father. How cold he have locked Cassary (Kaseru) in a dungeon? Did they have a sword duel?
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It is the tiny spark of humanity that adds blaze to a villain
Posted by Ebonyswanne on 02-06-2007 at 08:16:
Ohhh, you maybe on the wrong track there Amy.
He freak her out a little, but no he's not, but he does have plans for her.(you may have to read it again)
I have been trying to keep as much to canon as I can using some of the Info the guys have given here, but I have got creative too.
mmm the former love thing would have been a good angle but not the one I'm going with for this one.
Thanks for your feedback though!
__________________
Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
Posted by Ebonyswanne on 02-06-2007 at 08:18:
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I didn't call him helm in the fic just Count Egobossler...
I have read that info though and have based him from that. The man in the iron mask thing etc.
__________________
Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
Posted by amyltrer on 02-06-2007 at 10:19:
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Ohhh, It would have been nice.
I've got the ....plans for her, as I read that chapter ten times. He likes her, riiiiiight? Either that or he'll use her to get the Condor and the rest of the team.
Oh, no, Helm, don't play with the fire, er Condor....
Now I'm even more curious about her past.
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It is the tiny spark of humanity that adds blaze to a villain
Posted by amyltrer on 02-06-2007 at 10:24:
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Tatsunokofan's explanation was for me. But I like Helm; this name sounds better than Erun.
__________________
It is the tiny spark of humanity that adds blaze to a villain
Posted by Ebonyswanne on 02-06-2007 at 11:10:
Yes he does and he has plans, you know Ego he doesn't always play nice...
Each to his own. I just love the characters and write for the love of it... Amy I like you stories keep em coming
__________________
Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
Posted by amyltrer on 02-06-2007 at 11:17:
Did you read "playing hooky" The Devil Star challenge gave me the idea for it.
Oh, can't wait to see some interaction between Madeline and Ego. 
If she'll slap him and throw his wine in the face as the last woman did, poor Helm will be very displeased. And when he's displeased, he starts killing people. 
__________________
It is the tiny spark of humanity that adds blaze to a villain
Posted by Ebonyswanne on 02-06-2007 at 12:14:
Yeah I figured that;
I posted the next chapter,
I have seen it there and I 'll read it soon. Just been busy typing. Looks good and I enjoy your humour....
got any Aussie in you cause your humour is very much like ours.
Subtle but witty
__________________
Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
Posted by amyltrer on 02-06-2007 at 15:55:
Good chapter, Ebony. So from what I've read, She's Masaki's daughter. Now that would give Ego reason enough to chase her. He'll appear in the next chapter, won't he?
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It is the tiny spark of humanity that adds blaze to a villain
Posted by amyltrer on 02-06-2007 at 17:28:
Ebony, here's chapter 2
http://www.fanfiction.net/secure/live_preview.php?storyid=3557778&chapter=2/
You'll get a lot of Condor and Eagle there.
__________________
It is the tiny spark of humanity that adds blaze to a villain
Posted by tatsunokofan on 02-06-2007 at 20:09:
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Interesting, I'll have to send Carolyn and Wendy notes about this so they can update their sites, though I figure Carolyn would hold off that particular correction until she has her updated site ready to launch. I checked Wendy's site, but the only references to Egobossler's name I could find refer to him as Elun (Which given the Japanese habit of using "Rs" for "Ls," could also be correct. I prefer "Erun" because "Elun" sounds too much like the female name "Ellen"). If you can tell me where on her "Home of the White Shadow" site she calls him Helm, it'll make it easier for her to correct the mistake.
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What I presented in the initial write-up on him at the beginning of this thread is literally all that was said regarding his past. Beyond that is specualtion, not established fact. Don't forget, this all came from a single flashback in one episode of the series. They really didn't spend any time delving into his childhood.
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We are not shown that sequence of events. The action goes from Erun losing the bandages that cover his face, revealing that he now looks like Kaseru (With blue skin, white hair, and a fresh cut on his left cheek from the knife that Kaseru threw at him) to Egobossler gloating over his triumph while standing by his mother's grave. If I was going to speculate, I'd say that the gun Erun was holding on Kaseru (The same one he had just used to kill his father with) helped quite a bit to prevent his unarmed half brother from fighting back.
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That's fine, but it doesn't make it any more correct.
James
Posted by amyltrer on 02-06-2007 at 20:15:
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Thanks. It's sad they didn't show more of his background, he was such an interesting character.
From now on I'll reffer to him as Egobossler or just Ego.
__________________
It is the tiny spark of humanity that adds blaze to a villain
Posted by tatsunokofan on 02-06-2007 at 23:20:
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Yes, but think of it this way: We know more about his background than we do Ryu or Nambu, and they were around a lot longer that Egobossler was!
Besides, you are obviously someone who loves fanfic. Look at all those areas that you wonder about that aren't explained as areas you can work with.
James
Posted by Ebonyswanne on 03-06-2007 at 04:26:
Hi there Tatsun,
I think sometimes it is good to have a glimpse,
but then it does leave it open for fanfic to give them depth and a good story.
Now we can make him (Ego) even more interesting Amy!
Fight seems to have a darker feel to it, and more focus on lazer weapons. The ship is interesting but I'm surprised in some ways at the design of it.(paper airplane) ?
They took away the flexability they had in the first series of transmuting the whole individual mecha when needed. No wonder they ended up on base Permanently.
There was an original flavour to the first then they seemed to take on transformers/star wars, or something like that. The weaponary in the other Gatch series was still better than the lazer show in the glimpses I have seen.
Why would they go backwards?
The whole transmtation process had a more advanced feel to it, surely they could have come up with a better space ship than that.
I'm being a bit critical but I see it happen so often in series that start out with a great idea and try to go for the "popular" vote and fall flat because of it rather than develop the concepts that go with the feel they have created.
I'm still trying to find out how the hypershoot actually worked as a weapon other then Gatachaman looking impressive on top of the ship.
I still love my Gatch anyway and will watch fighter when I can understand the dialogue, no use buying it in Japnese to have it come out months later in English translations.
Cheers
EBS
__________________
Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
Posted by tatsunokofan on 03-06-2007 at 15:50:
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There are a lot of reasons for the changes between the first series and the two sequels, but the biggest one for what you're asking about was the change in the economics of producing an animated series between 1974 and 1978.
During those intervening years, the amount of control exerted on a series by its sponsors grew tremendously. In the case of Gatchaman II and Gatchaman Fighter, their main sponsors were the candy company Morinaga and the toy company Popy.
With Morinaga, there wasn't too much obvious interference (Though I'm sure there was some), but Popy was another story. Rather than creating toys based on ships designed by Tatsunoko, Popy created the toys they wanted and insisted that Tatsunoko use them in the show. So, what we ended up with in Gatchaman II and Gatchaman Fighter were designed as toys first, anime vehicles second.
You might also notice that there is far less personal combat between the Science Ninja Team members and Gallactor troops in the third series. This is once again because of Popy. During the second series, they made toys for the Ken's Bird Saucer, Joe's Feather Shuriken, Jun's Aurora Ribbon, and of the Sonic Gun carried by all the Ninja Team members. Apparently sales of these weapons weren't up to what Popy wanted, so when Gatchaman Fighter came along, Popy told Tatsunoko to use the personal weaponry less and focus more on the vehicles. Hence, more mecha action and less Ninja Team versus Gallactor fight scenes.
And here you thought this was all being done as art.
James
Posted by Ebonyswanne on 03-06-2007 at 22:49:
Dam commercial interests!
Now it makes more sense why the sudden changes in the techniques and fighting styles of the team.
Lets hope they keep the style more in the live action movie. I saw a preview for transformers last night and I'm going to see it. If they do Gatchaman to the quality I saw in it that it should be a great movie, just get good actors!
(not much goon action huh.)
I stumbled across a site when someone is doing full dialoge translations of GatchII and Fighter so that will be helpful to base things more to canon. She's only got the first 2 eps done of fighter.
http://www.google.com/Top/Arts/Animation/Anime/Titles/G/Gatchaman/
Danielas Gatchaman page it is called
thats the page link I found on google;
I've never done links to website before so forgive me if you cant click and go on it...I need to practice that. But anyway if it one you haven't found before than you maybe interested........
Went and saw Pirates III last night, was goog I thought,can't take it seriously but it was fun.
__________________
Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
Posted by Transmute Jun on 04-06-2007 at 00:14:
Daniela is a good friend of mine. She is translating a bunch of Gatch II and F episodes into English and Italian. She would love it if you went to her site and enjoyed her scripts!
She's adding new ones all the time, and is currently working on some Gatch F scripts.
http://xoomer.alice.it/blueswan/
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Posted by Ebonyswanne on 04-06-2007 at 01:10:
Ahhn yes I have started to read them and they are good.
What a champion!
It must be a lot of work for her.
__________________
Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
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