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Posted by Madilayn on 11-11-2008 at 16:39:
Yup, Ebony. I do a little writing for work (mostly procedures and manuals when required).
But my main outside fandom writing is non-fiction. I've been the Embroidery Editor for Bellaonline.com (Embroidery Site @ Bellaonline.com) and have also written for Suite 101.com (Maddy's articles at Suite 101
I must admit to being more reliable with my Embroidery articles (at least one a month) than anything else - because I have a schedule I have to keep there.
On the whole - I'm an unashamed writer-holic.
TJ - you're right in your comment about being attached to the characters. In the HP fandom, ther are some sub-fandoms where the fans are truly attached (I'm part of one of those - we're known as Puppyshippers because we're all passionate about Remus & Sirius as a couple *Waves Wolfstar Flag* and so there tends to be a lot more depth of writing in that area as well). A true fandom that survives and thrives has fans who are attached to the characters, rather than just an interest in the show/book/movie/game.
I suppose it's why we do write fanfic - to flesh out from what we've already been given and to explore the what if's.
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"When I'm old, I don't want them to say of me, "She's so charming." I want them to say, "Be careful, I think she's armed." -G. Stoddart
Posted by SJ_SwanJun on 11-11-2008 at 17:07:
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You know this hits the nail on the head for me with regards to fanfiction and the nagging nannies of the "canon" and "No AU Thank you" covens.
Fanfiction is all about what if. It is about our own interpretation of the show and what WE read between the lines -- which is extremely different from person to person.
Fanfiction is an exploration of what we got and what we want.
Canon is important to a degree -- as are characterizations -- but what is wrong with taking it up a notch and adding our own spin to it.
Yeah, I have Jason as a smoker -- so what? No he didn't smoke on any series, but to me the cigarette fits as a rebel.
No Jason wasn't a womanizer, but to me it made sense as a famous racing personality. Face it, sports stars and the such do bed-hop.
Some writers have encountered such groups as the one I won't mention, that frown upon deviation from pure canon. As a result they struggle so hard to make sure that they conform completely to it, that their energy gets completely zapped. Add to that the consistent complaints about whether or not a comma was in the right place, or whether any of the team actually used the term "Prin" for Princess, amongst other things, and what happens?
The writer loses steam real fast or they simply give up because they can't write the story they want to write because of the limitations.
That tends to bug me somewhat -- especially when these same types of people so readily accept Yaoi or absolutely far out fantasy type shit (like mythical creatures and shit) or whatever. Like, there was never any of that shit in the show either ... So ya know what? If you can take Ken and Joe bumping uglies in the night, then you can damn well take Jason having a cigarette...
So sometimes, if you encounter a bad fic or supposedly bad writer, it might not actually be them -- it might simply be the fact that they are trying so hard to please the readership that they aren't pleasing themselves in the process ... (oh that sounds dirty)
Basically, my thoughts are, you can love the characters as much as you want -- but if you find yourself tied to conformist writing behaviour, then you just may come out of it looking somewhat sub-par...
So write what you want and how you want. Love how YOU saw the characters, not how everyone else saw them. Write exactly how and what you feel and ya know what? That little piece of fiction will blow the rest of us away.
The naysayers are but a few ... We hungry are a hoarde ...
Yeah, consider this confirmation of my LOVE of the raw piece of fiction. I feel the love more inside an unbeta'd story than I do that polished/tweaked/changed/conformed piece.
Yes, I reiterate that I love the polished ones too ... But I'll take those first few raw fics and snuggle up to them as I watch that new writer grow and develop with continued energy to finally produce those perfect and polished little gems!
And am I making any bloody sense at all??????????
Ignore me.
I'm jacked off that someone here at the office got pissy at me because I wouldn't talk to her during my observation of my two minute silence.
SJ
__________________
Sighhh
Why do men snore when lying on their backs?
Because their balls fall over their butt holes and they vapour lock.
Posted by shamrokchick on 11-11-2008 at 18:50:
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I think that is the most important point in writing, because you can tell when someone is enjoying what they are talking about and when it's just forced.
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"They say the Titanic sank because it hit an iceberg, but that must have been Galactor's fault too." 
Posted by Transmute Jun on 11-11-2008 at 20:33:
Franky, if it's just forced and I'm not enjoying it, I don't write.
I write for ME, not for anyone else. That being said, there's nothing like a nice ego stroke when you discover that someone else likes your work too. But I write for ME. I post for my friends who like to read my stories. 
That being said, I find it necessary to use beta readers. Often I get good storyline feedback, and many of my fics have improved significantly because I have received and adjusted for such feedback. Beta readers also find grammar and spelling errors as well, although not all of them. I make far too many typos for all of them to be caught.
That being said, I've gotten feedback before that I don't agree with. As long as it was offered in good faith, I thank the reviewer/reader/beta'er and just ignore it. No need to get offended as long as the intention is good. (And yes, I know that's easier said than done.)
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Posted by Madilayn on 11-11-2008 at 20:54:
TJ - I think that we've all gotten feedback we don't agree with - hell, I know I've given feedback that the author didn't agree with (huggles SJ).
But then - that feedback has also taught me something about my writing and how it's perceived, and I value it. The only feedback I don't value is when it's obviously a rant with nothing constructive about it (yup - got that too - in fact it was a copy and paste from a "What is a Mary Sue" article).
Let's face it - even big name paid authors get negative feedback.
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"When I'm old, I don't want them to say of me, "She's so charming." I want them to say, "Be careful, I think she's armed." -G. Stoddart
Posted by Transmute Jun on 11-11-2008 at 20:57:
Maddy! There is no one out there who is such a good author that *everyone* likes their work.
FWIW, I love your stories! My only complaint is that your best ones are unfinished... 
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Posted by clouddancer on 11-11-2008 at 21:08:
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Can I say that that is my only complaint as well?
We really have to find a way to get Maddy motivated again.
Hmmmm, would sending you an Eagle be motivation or would it bee too much of a distraction?
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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.
Posted by Ebonyswanne on 12-11-2008 at 01:36:
I can't write a story that i no muse for....I struggle with it and then it ends up on trash pile....
No one see those stories!!! I may not be the best writer out there but I try and have fun doing it. I just love the birdies and writing them into a story is another way to appreciate them.
mmm I have one unfinished story...I'm almost at the halfway point on the last story...I'll be writing again to night if the kids go to bed on time.
On feedback; ITA Maddy, you know if the person is just trying to give you pointers or just be snobby about things like spelling or grammar. (Hahahaaaa I had one comment like that and the review has errors all through their review. If your gonna pick at those things get it right in your review.) TJ will tell me all the time when betaing if she feels an area can be worked on or is just out of line with the story. I don't mind, it all helps.
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Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
Posted by SJ_SwanJun on 12-11-2008 at 02:50:
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It's a fact that when someone corrects you on your grammar they will inevitably make several of their own.
I remember one such thread on the failblog site that was, perhaps, the funniest damn thing I had ever read in my life. It started as a grammar burn and ended up with over 500 comments with people correcting other people and making mistakes and ... shit, you just had to be there ....
Constructive crits don't ordinarily bother me (and I get a lot more than people see or know about), but only so long as as it is to give you guidence -- not just to tell you it sucked. The only reason I got somewhat miffed with one Maddy wrote me some time ago was that I was so utterly confused by it and had to question whether or not she was merging my fics with other people's and simply stating that the theme was already done and over done.
It turns out she was right and I was absolutely in a rut ... I took a break from writing as a result to try and tempt the muses into giving me something different to play with.
Of course them my muse would only offer me smutty ideas ... oh curse this muse of mine.
Grammar and spelling - yeah, well I know I suck at it, but is it that bad that it is impossible to read it? No, I don't think so.
I challenge the next person to question my grammar and spelling to ante up and beta read the damn thing!
I've had comments that a procedural fic was "too predictable for a whodunit" ... Well it wasn't a whodunit as much as it was a how theydunit ...
Reviews make my day, they really do, but I don't necessarily hunger for them as I'll write regardless. I get peeved and generally will not review a fic if the author threatens not to continue if you don't review them.
If someone wants to get analytical and give me a thorough critique of bad, I usually prefer them to do it privately, to give me a chance to mull it over and actually ask their guidence as to where I went wrong and how might I fix it.
That has worked wonders for me in the past. I had one scathing review and because it was done privately, I was actually able to communicate with them and repair the story completely. I still keep in touch with that reviewer and respect her for having enough respect for me not to post her complaint publically.
Because you know. Once someone sees a bad review they'll generally leave you one too -- just so they look to agree -- or whatever.
I would love to have a beta reader on board because I feel I have grown past the original energies of newness and am ready to create something more polished. Yes, I love raw from others, and beg and plead for more like that ... But I've been writing BotP now for, wow, six years?!?! I'm ready to step it up a notch.
Oh and Maddy ... WHO sent you a link on Mary Sues?
I will so go and kick their sorry asses...
SJ
__________________
Sighhh
Why do men snore when lying on their backs?
Because their balls fall over their butt holes and they vapour lock.
Posted by gogirl212 on 12-11-2008 at 06:50:
Being a brand spanking new fic writer I don't have anything to contribute but I do want to say how much I am enjoying reading all of your ideas about writing and crits. It is a very valuable conversation to be privy to. Since I respect you as writers, I respect also your opinions about the hows, whys, and whats of the writing and the crit process. It helps me understand myself better.
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There are few problems that a swift kick to the head by a highly trained ninja can't solve.
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