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Posted by Buffy on 30-09-2004 at 10:21:

Buffy thinks about this one.

Okay Ronin, so, the US should reenstate the draft so that we can prove our macho-ness in the time honored American tradition of dodging to the bullet while promoting our treasured cultural values of crime and disregard for laws while the rest of the world fights our wars for us. Did I translate that correctly?

You've always been an equal opportunity smart ass Ro'. Big Grin

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Posted by Cep on 30-09-2004 at 11:30:

Also Ro, the principal of a free healthcare system is great.....just a shame its ran by a bunch of prats Mad

Anyway I think my favourite internet comic just summed this thread up.

Draft!

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Posted by Elvin Ruler on 30-09-2004 at 15:06:

My problem with socialized medicine is the fact that you have to call for permission to go to an emergency room and then wait for them to tell you when and where and even *if* you can go. A friend of mine's niece needed heart surgery just after she was born. Her family had to wait for the time told to them. By then, the defect had weakened her so much that she wouldn't survive surgery. The surgery was done when she was almost a year. She could have died anytime between then. My nephew had the same defect over here in the states. He underwent the operation twenty hours after he was born. She's sickly, he's healthy.

I like the idea of a free healthcare system. I just realize that, in this world, if it's too good to be true, than it isn't true, and you get what you pay for.

And there's my $200 dollars worth. Heh, forget two cents. ^_^

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Posted by CricketBeautiful on 30-09-2004 at 15:23:

Elvin, don't rate all socialized health care by that.

A non-caring or under-funded HMO might have done the same.

Here, despite the problems and underfunding and losing doctors due to underpaying them, it means we don't have to worry about not being able to afford the vaccinations, and that small things get treated before they get bigger. It means my neighbour with four kids and a dead-beat ex doesn't have to decide between the doctor or supper. It means that expectant moms go to the doctor every month, then every week, so that pre-eclempsia or gestational diabetes (both symptomless) is caught before the child is injured.

We don't have to call for permission to go to emerg, but we do have Telecare (love it!) which can help you decide if it's worth it -- so often, all you need is reassurance and a new idea, or the signs to watch for. And they always say to go in if things change.

Sure, there are problems -- there's no perfect system -- but I hate the alternative.

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Between stimulus and response there is a space.
In that space is our power to choose our response.
In our response lies our growth and our freedom.

- Viktor E. Frankl

Posted by Elvin Ruler on 30-09-2004 at 16:25:

True, and I apologise for lumping them all together. I'm glad that ya'll have a system that works relatively well. I really have problems with every form of health care. Lord knows how much problems my family's had with our health care provider.

I just don't know how well the US would be able to pull off socialized medicine (look at our problems with welfare and social security), and because of personal problems I've seen with some forms of socialized medicine, I'm very wary to try it. But, again, I shouldn't lump them all together. (Should only really do that with politicians, anyways. ^_^)

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Posted by stardust on 01-10-2004 at 00:19:

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin
Your a wimp because you cant be bothered to dodge draft....

...isnt lawbreaking part of your culture?

Okay, I have to come Tajiri's defense on this one.
It's not a matter of being a wimp to dodge the draft, it's the fact that choice has been taken away from you. (Now remember I come from a military family)
If I was drafted, I know without a shadow of a doubt that I would probably die. Not because I am a wimp but because I was not gifted in that department. It is a scary thing to face, IMHO.

And out of sheer curiousity, who's 'culture' are you talking about?

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A villain must be a thing of power, handled with delicacy and grace. He must be wicked enough to excite our aversion, strong enough to arouse our fear, human enough to awaken some transient gleam of sympathy. - Agnes Repplier

Posted by Elvin Ruler on 01-10-2004 at 01:49:

Yeah, same with me. My aim stinks, and I'm bad at dodging. Not good traits for a soldier. ^_^

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Posted by Firebird on 02-10-2004 at 12:24:

Aside from agreeing about being a lousy aim and bad at dodging and also have this real bad habit of wanting to help people that are hurt.

So does that mean someone shoots someone I get killed trying to help them and my comrades die trying to protect me???

Guess that makes me a real bad candidate

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Posted by stardust on 02-10-2004 at 13:32:

Well FB I guess we're going down together, because I can't leave someone in pain either. I don't even know if I could kill someone unless it's a direct attack on me.
Being a HS teacher I am good at the run, jump and dodge game. However, training with full pack on your shoulders at 4 am is not in the least appealing to me. It's a good thing I am too old if they did do a draft. Big Grin

Posted by Firebird on 06-10-2004 at 16:55:

Think I am in the too old category to SD.

And yes I am grateful for that. I would serve my country happily but I would rather do it in a medical non aggressive capacity.

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Posted by Berg Katse on 08-10-2004 at 04:57:

Interesting discussion....

When all is said and done, the problems of Iraq, of the president of the US and the presidential candidate, the healthcare system, the Middle East, can all be boiled down to one common denominator.

Money.

Those who have money want more of it, those who don't, want to control it. Pharmaceutical companies, governments, multinational corporations, powerful ruling families. It's all about who has the cash, and who is stuffing whose pockets with that cash. We're all paying the price for those few greedy people that truly control our world--our at least, the true background upon which our society is built.

Just look at it--the world is over a barrel now--a barrel of oil, highest prices in ages. No other reason than political, when you get down to it. The US uses 64% of the world's oil reserves, and yet, only has 3% of all the world's oil on its land. Oil prices determine the prices of everything else in the world--manufacturing, stock market, transportation, everything is related to oil, which is nothing more than liquid cash.

Pharmaceutical companies--I've seen the ads that now run on American TV saying that the high price paid for brand name drugs is worth it because it funds new drugs. That's bullshit. Billions of dollars are spent each year by pharmaceutical companies on advertising. Only about $500 million is on research and development--if that. And the pharmaceutical companies are presently funding the political campaigns. Their money controls the politicians to some degree. The government in the US now wants to make it mandatory to test all American residents and especially children for mental health problems before being allowed to go to school. If the parents refuse to have them assessed, or medicated, the parents are charged with neglect and the children are removed from their care. This has already happened with teachers recommended students be put on drugs and, when the parents didn't comply, in came Welfare. If their is mandatory screening, more people will be prescribed drugs--drugs the companies make. They earn money, money that funds the politicians. The politicians then have it in their best interest to pass laws against generic drugs being sold at cheaper prices, both in their country and abroad. They have a reason to pass legislation preventing drugs coming in from Canada--though right now they're saying Canadian drugs can't be trusted because they're not made to US standards--which is actually a load of bullshit, seeing as most drugs sold in America are developed and made here anyhow.

And the problem with money is how it makes everyone act. Merck is recalling Vioxx because it may have caused over 27 000 heart attacks. The FDA should have noted this. But once again, money talks here too. The politicians (funded by the pharmies) appoint people to the FDA advisory board. The latest appointed minister to the board is a man who is extremely religious and is spearheading the reform of national healthcare to create "Catholic based" health plans for workers (already coming into affect in Illinois), health care that does not include any form of birth control, no matter the circumstance, no abortion, and no fertility treatments. Now the FDA advisors have a good reason not to go against the pharmies--that's who landed them their jobs, through the politicians. So the FDA has a rule that states pharmaceutical companies approaching them with new medications DO NOT REQUIRE THIRD PARTY RESEARCH RESULTS. The FDA advisory panel simply looks at the research done by the company itself on the drug, and under their research, decides whether it should be improved. No one checks the pharmaceutical companies and their research claims. And look at what has come of it: Rezulin, Vioxx, what next?

And it all comes down to money. Life, war, peace, death--these don't mean anything. In the end, it all comes down to money.

Katse

Posted by CricketBeautiful on 08-10-2004 at 14:17:

Hey, don't forget Viagra. Places that won't fund the birth control pill will happily fund Viagra.

So, your guy insists on sex, despite the fact that a pregnancy might kill you, and he gets Viagra and you get nothing?

They're shooting themselves in the foot on that one, if they're claiming "procreation is good" -- the Pill can reduce complications from endometriosis.

We'll leave out the other things it can be used for, and it's negative side-effects -- which vary with formulation, but include depression.

__________________
Between stimulus and response there is a space.
In that space is our power to choose our response.
In our response lies our growth and our freedom.

- Viktor E. Frankl

Posted by stardust on 15-10-2004 at 00:10:

Katse I have to totally agree with you on this one.
Money.
After all, the love of money is the root of all evil.