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--- Why do you dislike the BOTP comics? (http://www.gatchamania.net/threadid.php?threadid=955)
Posted by Condorfan on 06-05-2007 at 07:19:
Why do you dislike the BOTP comics?
Hello everyone:
With Gatchaman interest building with the upcoming movie (btw is that coming out in 2008 or 2009?)--anyway I was hoping that the Battle of the Planets comics would return either by Top Cow or another comics company. But I have noticed that some people didn't like the Top Cow comics. I just wondering what they didn't like about them. Personally, I enjoyed them--when I first heard about them coming out I thought oh no! 7-Zark-7! I guess I was thinking it would be exactly like the old Whitman BOTP comics--strictly for young readers. I picked them up later and wish I had bought them when they came out. I really hate that Top Cow cancelled it and left it incomplete. Perhaps another company may pick it up and do better. One can only hope.
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Posted by imaqtz on 06-05-2007 at 13:43:
WB condorfan!
hmmm, I really should leave a question like this to the professionals like Merry. and it's times like these where I wish we still had the archive forum still around. I recall a somewhat heated and lengthy debate a couple of years back, on why so many didnt enjoy BOTP comics.
Merry and others could tell you some other site forum (probably the top cow itself from distant memory) which held an even more agressive debate on the issue with the ML I think, but dont quote me on that.
If you are interested with initial reviews of comics then this might help:
http://www.chronicsite.com/gatchaman/comics.html
Who knows? Im with you, I liked the comics and yes they were unfinished (damn I hate that!) but like you said, perhaps with the advent of the NTT and imagi films coming out sometime between late 2008 /early2009 , interest could be renewed and comics could be picked up again!
Only prob I have with this , is there is now a plethora of Gatchaman Variants vying for the same target market. Too many varied versions of the same product is going to confuse everyone!
How many more name changes, image alterations, and upgradingto suit today's commercialism are we fans going to have to bear?
It was crazy enough having to deal with about three English verions of the same anime at the time!!
Was Princess/ Jun/ Aggie one and the same in BOTP, G force- guardians of the galaxy and Eagle riders? Unless you were acquainted with the original Jap anime and the history behind Sandy Franks dealings with Tasunoko, how could you keep up with the storyline let alone the different versions?
OAV comes out in '94 , and many were left speechless with the new upgraded look! Perhaps, could it be the same hard line traditionalist followers of Gatchaman were the same ones that once the hype of the Alex Ross covers died down, were the ones to "diss the comics?" *shrug* who knows?
We got used to different verions of James Bond, Batman movies didnt have too bad of a fallout with fans with again different lead actors taking on the lead role...just how many name changes and altered looks could Gatch /BOTP fans forgive and overlook however?
I'll finish ramble with quote from above mentioned link:
" I see the staff is combining elements of Gatchaman into the BotP universe, and I fear they're going to confuse everyone who used to watch the show. What's Gatchaman? And what's ISO? Isn't Anderson the chief of Galaxy Security? Why is Gatchaman used to define the whole team--isn't it just the leader (in the Gatchaman series, Ken is the only one to use that title and the others are called the Kagaku Ninjatai). Of course, it's been a while since I have followed a comic series, so maybe fans are more accepting of altered and alternate universes. "
Maybe all universes can combine and give us ONE team, ONE look , ONE accepted universe. Then again all languages can be combined and we can all learn Esperanto. 
Ciao!
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Posted by Springie on 06-05-2007 at 14:02:
Welcome back, Condorfan!
Hmmm...I'm with you, I liked the comics...not *loved*...but *liked*...
I was a bit disappointed that Princess didn't really solve her issues with Mark in the "Princess" series...
and totally disappointed they left me hanging about Jason's situation in the comics...I wish they'd finish the story at least...
anyone know which series sold the most? I know there was a Mark series, a Jason series, a Princess series, Manga, and the regular BOTP series...
and the Thundercats crossover...which I didn't like...
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Posted by Condorfan on 06-05-2007 at 16:21:
Thanks Imaqtz and Springie--it's nice to be back.
imaqtz brings up some points I hadn't considered--perhaps people were expecting BOTP exactly like the show. It might have been those who only know BOTP and not familiar with Gatchaman (I only found out myself a few years ago!) were confused by it. They might have bought it for their kids only to be shocked at the more mature content. That's what worries me about the new Gatchaman film--most people won't know what it is. When it is reviewed, I bet people will say "based on the BOTP series of the 1970's" and people will think--oh yeah I remember and expect to see a movie exactly like the BOTP series.
Getting back to the topic at hand, when the comic initially came out, it was an incredible success but they should have noticed the slipping sales and tried with a different writer. Top Cow seems to me to have just gotten lazy--notice now the Princess series was not colored as the Mark and Jason were. They were just throwing it together and not caring about it anymore. Which is why I hope another company takes it over.
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Posted by meridianday on 06-05-2007 at 16:38:
I think the reason they went to black and white is that it was cheaper to produce - since sales of the colour version had slipped so much they weren't making enough money on it.
Top Cow consolidated their boards a while back - the BOTP forum vanished into something called "Top Cow Classics", and I think the really interesting threads got deleted. That the BOTP comic lost its own forum showed that they didn't intend to make any more at that point.
It is a real shame, because when they launched the comic it was their biggest launch ever. It had all the Alex Ross publicity, and I suppose a lot of people might have been buying it for his name, and then finding out that he only did the covers. There was talk of Mark Millar writing some but that didn't happen. I don't believe people stopped buying it for the Udon artwork. The audience just slipped away, and I recall that when I went to buy issue 4 that that was the one that stubbornly stayed on the shelves and resulted in the comic shop getting less in of the next issue, and so on.
I haven't gone back and re-read any of mine. So, I can't remember them clearly enough. I did prefer the black & white mini-series to the main series though. It was far more BOTP/Gatch and far less "edgy", and I liked the portrayal of the characters more. I do recall that I didn't like Munier Sharieff's Jason at all. However, since Alex Ross later said that Sandy Frank had wanted to eventually kill off the BOTP team and replace them with another team so as to lose any copyright issues with Tatsunoko, it probably wasn't all Munier Sharieff's fault.
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Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny." Posted by amyltrer on 30-05-2007 at 12:34:
To answer straight at the question:
1) 7-Zark-7
2) Naming Katze Zoltar.
3) Ken (Mark)'s sayings.
And many episodes are deleted. It miss the quintessence of the original series.
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Posted by SJ_SwanJun on 30-05-2007 at 13:42:
My problem, aside from the artwork, was the inconsistencies stemming from all the crossover pieces an and let me not forget the characterization problems.
Mark and Prin are a couple here not there. There was flirting here, not there. Mark was jealous, Mark didnt give a shit.
Okay, my shipper side shows right on through with that observation & But &
Well. I wasnt enthralled. I was annoyed.
The way they artistically portrayed Princess, as a boob jutting, pouting, big eyes, sheep-ass haired chic drove me insane. The thong? Oh give me a fuckn break!
Jason was, perhaps, a little over the top in regards to his Bad Boy thing. The whole getting laid while getting his first call? Puh-lease. Jason would more likely (and more fittingly) be on the racetrack for his first call&
Oh, and Princess preening? Give me a break. Shed be on the guitar, or working at Jills.
Keyop being afraid of battle?
What?
Huh?
Are we talking the same kid? The Mighty Swallow , who is a better fighter/soldier/man/hero than the Eagle, afraid of a mission?
(Now I know I am guilty on all fronts of screwing up the characters on a consistent basis But I aint getting paid to write them so that dont count)&
My biggest issue, of course, was the artwork. I simply didnt like it any of it. Mark was too effeminately drawn, Princess too skanky, Jason too harsh, Keyop too comical & The only ones they got right were Tiny, Anderson and Zoltar &
Cronus & Im still on the fence on. I love my Rangers muchly, (So I fuckn LOVED the Mark comic just because of them perfect, perfect) so I didnt want to see what theyd done to my precious Cronus.
Actually Zoltar was purfect way perfect. What a perfect villain! The only part of the re-vamp I actually did enjoy.
I loved Witchblade, and the characterization of Princess; tough, intense, fearless, yet still feminine and soft. Mark actually behaved like Mark. He was stern, commanding, protective, and still had that soft spot for his Swan that was loving without being a mushball. He held her hand (but not shoulder tsk tsk Mark is a shoulder holder) and assured her without having to resort to Oh I love you too or any such nonsence. He told her he was there, he understood and empathized without making promised or declarations of his own.
Thundercats God, where do I go with that? Both of them were bloody awful.
Jason Dark, angsty, and horribly out of character. Jason was not a dangerous Dark Knight kind of guy. He misbehaved, challenged authority, teased and taunted, wished for destruction, but he was NOT that screwed up. He would never, ever have even entertained the notion of assassinating the man who took him to where he was. He was protective of Anderson &.
Mark Heh heh. Yeah I enjoyed it. Fairly true to how I perceived things. Wasnt too hot on the Zorro look Cronus ended up with, but loved his toughness and, of course, his men. Wasnt too hot on the blonde who tried to hit up on Mark. Though I did love Marks apparent oblivion to it Bringing up Princess was a neat touch.
His stutter when asked if he had a girlfriend I got a giggle out of. He warned her off without even realizing it.
Perfect Mark.
Princess Oh what a complete disappointment. Absolute disappointment. I could list it all, but this post is already way too long. In a nutshell & Complete bullshit. This comic was no more than fanfiction that the writer got paid for. I could mildly accept her leaving because Mark got upset she screwed up. I could giggle and squee about her loving life on the outside.
Jason coming to talk to her yup, totally buy that.
Mark being a brat? Oh give me a fucking break! He might question her presence in the operations room, but not in the way he did. Hed be somewhat more professional about it. I do like that he kept her communicator close to him, it makes sense, although I feel a little miffed that it wasnt he who tried to talk to Princess. Mark is a talker, hed corner her and ask why .
Unresolved issues. Oh Good God. Why bring up the fact that she has issues with Mark and that being part of the reason she left and then not resolve any of it? That just left me feeling deflated and robbed of a decent storyline. There was potential in there, and they dropped the ball with rushed writing.
Manga Oh Good God I LOVED it. I adored it! This was G-Force! This was snarky Jason! This was naïve and excitable Princess! This was cool and in control Mark! This was action! This was Zoltar! This was what the comics SHOULD have been.
Artwork was beautiful, the characters HAD character. They had depth. In the first issue you saw the relationships within, and knew who they were, what they were, and &. Gosh. We got more in one comic, than we did in 12 of the original.
I absolutely and totally LOVE this series!! I only wish they had continued &
I cant talk enough about the artwork and how beautiful it was! (aside from the Prinny-thong shots still dont like that).
Um & I think that about sums it all up, right?
To summarize:
BotP Interesting, but not all that great. Great for the newer fan, not so for the older one.
Witchblade Nicely done. Loved Princess in this piece.
Mark Love my Rangers, enjoyed muchly.
Jason Hated it immensely.
Princess Throw it in the fire & cant even say the art was good.
Thundercats God Awful & Absolutely God Awful.
Manga Gimme more, Dammit!!! Absolutely fuckn sensational!!
I wont go into Universe, Gatch/BotP merges, as its already been covered. Didnt mind it, the call-out to Gatch was sweet, but it got confusing &
SJ
Sometimes HTML works ... sometimes it doesn't. In this case it didn't ... So, yeah, I cut'n'pasted this one from word .... Had to to continue to be sneaky..
Sorry 'bout that ...
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Why do men snore when lying on their backs?
Because their balls fall over their butt holes and they vapour lock.
Posted by Cep on 30-05-2007 at 14:33:
HTML is disabled in posts 
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Posted by SJ_SwanJun on 30-05-2007 at 14:53:
:giggle:
Yeah, Cep ... I kinda noticed that ...
But I did sneak it in once, and it worked yummy ... This time I was not so lucky.
My bad. Sorry ...
I will offer smooches and yummy stuff for your forgiveness...
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Why do men snore when lying on their backs?
Because their balls fall over their butt holes and they vapour lock.
Posted by Cep on 30-05-2007 at 16:24:
That sounds wonderful 
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Posted by Condorfan on 02-06-2007 at 05:23:
SJ Swan Jun--thanks for your insight as to why you disliked the comics. I agree on some points but perhaps the changes were primarily to make BOTP more accessible to new fans--but I don't think they should have. New storylines yes but keep the characters true to the original. Comics is a funny market--most people think of it as "cartoons for kids" when in actually more adults read them then kids do. Just go to a comic book convention and you see primarily adults (who bring their kids of course). To get back to topic, I think the comics failed because of the poor writing. Not to say the writer might be better at another subject matter, but should have been taken off when sales started to drop. As for the art, I enjoyed it but I'm an artist. Wasn't the artist chosen for this series by Alex Ross? I wish he would do another BOTP artwork to generate interest in it again.
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Posted by Ebonyswanne on 04-06-2007 at 11:37:
From what you guys are saying it's not worth reading them....Princess in a G-string holding hands with Mark...not inspiring to buy them. He is a shoulder hug kinda guy but he could kiss her something I supose.
Maybe they should have ask someone who writes canon fanfic to do it....at least they may have gotten it right by the sounds of it....start you own for no profit comic...
Springie can do the pics!
SJ the dialogue that may work...
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Posted by Springie on 04-06-2007 at 19:15:
Awwwww...Ebony...all of my pictures would be Swan/ Eagle or Swan/ Condor kisses...may get a little boring after a while...
... WHAT AM I SAYING??? LOL
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Posted by Ebonyswanne on 05-06-2007 at 09:16:
Soooo...
SJ will have to get creative with the dialogue lots of love triangles in that one! Ryu must feel really left out sometimes...... 
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Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
Posted by SJ_SwanJun on 05-06-2007 at 13:04:
:snort:
Nah, what would happen with me is that I'd get halfway through, then get writers block.
You think the original was unfinished - heh heh ....
SJ
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Sighhh
Why do men snore when lying on their backs?
Because their balls fall over their butt holes and they vapour lock.
Posted by CricketBeautiful on 05-06-2007 at 15:51:
Ryu left out if SJ wrote the dialogue? Can't find the link to the fic, but she's quite capable of including him.
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Posted by Ebonyswanne on 06-06-2007 at 08:46:
Bloody writers block!!!
Never experiance it till I started to write fics..... Now I relate..still learning to type though....LOL
So maybe we could get paid for this after all !!!
If someone gets paid to write comics very loosley canon, than why not pay someone who knows more than they do and actually pick the characters better....SJ looking for a new Job??? 
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Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
Posted by SJ_SwanJun on 06-06-2007 at 12:30:
| quote: | |
|
LOL!
Bolding is mine...
Actually, yes I am looking for a new job. I am, however, getting very annoyed with the interview process and being told that I am "too qualified" for the job.
So I am either over or under qualified .... sigh.
So, yeah ... Oh comic people, if you're looking for someone... PICK ME!! PICK ME!!
LOL ...
No. I think, honestly, that it wouldn't matter who was chosen for writing the comics, be it someone intimately familiar with them, or not...Someone will always be irritated by it.
Even Jason - the guru of all things BotP, got grief for his input ...
There will always be critics, my dear. Always ... sigh.
But whomever wrote Manga ... Bring him on! I LOVED that series so much!!
THAT was how it SHOULD have been written!!!
SJ
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Sighhh
Why do men snore when lying on their backs?
Because their balls fall over their butt holes and they vapour lock.
Posted by Ebonyswanne on 06-06-2007 at 13:27:
| quote: | ||||
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Yeah that's just the way it goes mate with jobs...
yes there will always be someone not happy(Comic critics)But please an artist can do research and character referances a good one can anyway, I expect them too if they are being paid for it. I have done work for magazines in projects and expect people to know something on the topic they are being paid for.... I suppose.
Fan fic, no because it's for a passion and appreciation, and fun.
it's just nice to be paid for doing something you enjoy!
I'm a little in that place myself with over /under qualifed thing....Then they tell you they don't want to move you cause your doing too good a job, you are can't win!!!
Fan fic gives me an outlet for the pain!!!
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Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
Posted by amethyst on 23-09-2009 at 16:24:
Chiming in rather late. . .
I didn't read them until recently, when I found them online. I'm glad that I read them, but I won't say that I'm found of all the characterizations, they were more like caricatures than characters. The artwork was hit and miss. Overall, what it did do was help me to understand some references in fanfics that I wondered why they were there, that didn't make since, now they do.
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