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Posted by Springie on 21-07-2006 at 21:30:
Ken v. Joe
Ok..I was looking in the debating room and didn't see this...so forgive me if this has been done before....I'm going to be a bit of an instigator (sp.?)here... 
...who kicks more Galactor butt...Ken or Joe? Or...who's your fav....and why?
vs. 
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Posted by gatch72 on 21-07-2006 at 22:38:
I would say joe..he has more of a kick a** attitude...but then again katse will beat em all....
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Posted by Elvin Ruler on 22-07-2006 at 02:49:
I tend to bounce between the two as far as faves, but Joe definitely kicks more Galactor butt.
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Posted by meridianday on 22-07-2006 at 14:12:
Ken's the more elegant fighter, and since he gets more grandstanding episodes I think he technicially gets to kick more butts/bits than Joe. If Joe goes hand to hand, he just tends to go in with his fists until really rather late on in Gatch 1.
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Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny." Posted by Elvin Ruler on 22-07-2006 at 16:12:
True.
*bounces back and forth*
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Posted by Madilayn on 22-07-2006 at 23:19:
I think that Ken gets more screentime, but Joe probably has more kills up his sleeve.
I will admit to not being a fan of Ken (although I love Mark - his BotP counterpart) because I think that he has a rather selfish character.
Joe, on the other hand, we see many times putting his own needs second to those of others.
On the other hand, I adore Ken/Joe as a couple!!!
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Posted by Elvin Ruler on 23-07-2006 at 01:35:
Which is one of the things that confused me about the comics. In Gatch, Joe talks often (well, several times, anyways) about the importance of teamwork. That idea is definitely scrubbed from his personality in the comics.
As I've been rewatching (I'm slowly collecting the dvd sets now) the episodes, I've really enjoyed seeing the team in action. It's such a difference from cartoons now. The worst Gatch episodes are better than some of the best episodes of cartoons over here in the states.
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Posted by Madilayn on 23-07-2006 at 02:45:
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But then in the comics, it's BotP not Gatchaman, so we're looking at Jason rather than Joe.
Jason is much more of a loner than Joe is, and whilst Jason does believe in teamwork - to a point - he wants to be the head of the team, rather than Mark. Jason believes that he's just as an effective leader as Mark (though we never really get to see this theory of his in action). When the chips are down, though, Jason takes his full part in teh team without question - and is always there when his team needs him (the only instances when this occurs are when he;s been detained by an outside event or person).
In Gatch, the team seems to be all of their substitute for family (except for Ken in a way). Joe and Jinpei especially seem to embody this. (though Joe would probably hurt anybody who suggested that to him).
In Gatchaman, the team is held together by the team iteself, whilst in BotP the team is held together by a leader who puts his team first, and the team.
IMHO, the BotP team will be more effective longer because their leader puts team before self, whilst in Gatch we see time and time again where Ken puts his own wishes first.
In many ways, it seems as if Jason got gifted with many of Ken's character traits when the series got translated.
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Posted by Elvin Ruler on 23-07-2006 at 03:03:
Ah. I've never really watched BotP, so I didn't understand where it came from.
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Posted by meridianday on 23-07-2006 at 12:30:
I don't think Jason ever really wanted to be leader instead of Mark. I think really he was challenging Mark's leadership when he didn't like Mark's ideas, rather than trying to be the leader instead of Mark.
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Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny." Posted by Springie on 23-07-2006 at 13:10:
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Jason/Joe lost points as a good leader (IMHO) when Ken deserted the team to look for his Dad. The team fell apart...and everyone was too busy blaming Ken/ Mark, instead of focusing on the mission. The Cataroller would've ripped them up if Jun/Princess hadn't taken charge. I think it was Princess that said she was going to , "Save them from this embarrassment."
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Posted by gatchgirl on 23-07-2006 at 16:10:
May have to watch that episode again too.... I go back and forth between the two myself. Each have their own distint good qualities but in a LOT of ways I still lean towards rebellion.... not sure why though 
I just like to see emotion in the character of any sorts.... anger, jealousy, fear.... any of them so whoever has the most feeling to them at that time is who I like for that moment....
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Posted by CricketBeautiful on 24-07-2006 at 17:15:
I disagree about Jason wanting to be the leader. It's not that he wants to be the leader, it's that he wants to get things done rather than wait for permission and/or orders. (It's easier to get forgiveness than permission.)
He does value teamwork, but doesn't consider his teammates strengths unless he has to. He takes the first plan that works:
1. I can do it, so I will.
2 .I can't do it, but Princess can. Tell her to do it.
3. I can do it, but we also need a driver. Let Princess set the bomb.
4. Princess is better at setting bombs, she should do it. Just doesn't register.
He's also working on learning to do the things he can't already do. Relies on others for manpower, but doesn't like relying on them for specific skills.
If that first plan has long-term problems, he's not likely to worry about them.
I was going to say that Jason is an effective leader in the short term, but you're right about things falling apart when Mark ran off. Guess I just don't like saying he'd not be good at it.
The recent Munier comics can't really supplement canon. Too many changes.
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Posted by gatchgirl on 05-08-2006 at 14:42:
I think he tends to be the type that can forget that he has a team for a split second and goes ahead and does it himself.... Thats what makes him a "bad or indesisive" leader. Other then that I can totally see where he's coming from. I'm kinda like that myself, would rather do the shit myself then to wait on someone else to do it for me.
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Posted by Metaliant on 06-08-2006 at 08:14:
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I quite agree with that.
Jason is more like Joe and just wants to get th job done without any plans and such. In fact, to me, Jason will go off and do his th9ing in BOTP more than Mark.
If my memory is correct, in the OAVs, Ken is more like Mark and Joe is more like Jason, but that is just my opinion.
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Posted by Metaliant on 06-08-2006 at 08:16:
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I'd always prefer Mark over Jason but not too sure why.
In Gatchaman, I don't know. It's 50/50 for me.
Although I can work on my own, I prefer to have good and reliable workmates (which I don't in reality) with me, so we can do the job done quickly and efficiently.
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Posted by Metaliant on 06-08-2006 at 08:17:
Ah yes I forgot to mention that Mark is more of an effective leader than Ken.
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Posted by gatchgirl on 06-08-2006 at 15:34:
Thats because he tends to take his teammates thoughts into consideration more so. That is Mark I'm talking about. I would have to admit though that the voice actors helped some when it came to BOTP. My cousins thought I had a crush on Casey for some reason..... don't know why though!!!!
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Posted by Metaliant on 06-08-2006 at 18:12:
I did like the voice actors for BOTP. Match well with the cartoon charactors well. Pity you can't get that in all off the cartoon/CGI series/films.
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Posted by gatchgirl on 07-08-2006 at 01:30:
I agree..... I would have to say that for a few years I pictured myself being a nanny to Caseys and Jeans kid!!!
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