Gatchamania.net (http://www.gatchamania.net/index.php)
- [Gatchaman Library] (http://www.gatchamania.net/board.php?boardid=300)
-- Gatchaman (http://www.gatchamania.net/board.php?boardid=5)
--- ADV Gatchaman (http://www.gatchamania.net/threadid.php?threadid=655)
Posted by meridianday on 16-02-2006 at 18:40:
ADV Gatchaman
Call me behind the times, but due to a dearth of spare time (and my PC's dvd drive being region 2) I've only just got around to taking my first look at the 1st collection.
I chose, at random, episode 11, the one with the Giant Blue Hawk plane. And I chose, for my sins, to watch it in english language.
It's a shock to the system. I get the feeling that they have used a fairly literal translation. It's not smooth. I feel as if I'm getting used to G-Force all over again, but without the backbeat. There's something very stilted about these scripts, but perhaps with a literal translation it can't be avoided.
And there was this great moment where Nambu is talking to the guy from the security council who is telling him that the Blue Hawk has already been stolen, and the guy's voice is exactly the same as Tony Curtis' Shell millionaire voice from Some Like It Hot. You know, the "nobody talks like that" voice that's meant to sound like Cary Grant? So I don't think that voice actor was taking things very seriously 
I shall get used to it. I'm off to watch another one now. Probably episode 12, since it's already started. But next time I watch some, I might just choose japanese language/english subtitles. I think I can handle literal subtitles better than literal voices with a smattering of contemporary slang.
And Ryu said "frigging"! I was smirking at that.
__________________
Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny." Posted by meridianday on 16-02-2006 at 19:14:
Just watched my second episode, which was the cocroach episode (12). This has always been one of my favourite episodes, certainly from the early set. The characters were really falling into place by this point and it's got humour, action, and an extremely silly plot.
I'm warming to it considerably now. The voice actors are on average, I think, better than the G-Force ones (although I think Aggie's was probably better than Jun's). And in this episode they all seemed to be having a really good time. Although the narrator is going to be getting on my nerves, I can tell.
Somebody else who's got this dvd, tell me. When they're in the first cylinder where the plunger comes down to crush them and Joe finds the panel and they all get out, Ken last of all, what does Ken say as he's just finished pushing Ryu through the hole and is about to slide through himself? Because it sounded to me just like "zoinks"! In joke?
And Jinpei says "bastard".
I've got such a big grin on my face. I really enjoyed this episode, silly script and all.
__________________
Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny." Posted by Metaliant on 16-02-2006 at 20:11:
I have tried to watch both in the dubbed versions and I hated them. I also watch my Gatchaman on PC as that's Region 2 as well and have problems reasing every single subtittled word and sometimes miss a bit of the conversation (lucky nothing important) I read.
I only have come across only several Japanese cartoons which are very good in dubbed, eg Chost In The Shell, but sometimes come across as bad dubbing and it's better watching it in the subtittled version, just Gatchaman.
__________________
Eagle in Residence
Tempory Frisker
Posted by Madilayn on 16-02-2006 at 21:16:
One thing I've noticed since I started watching my own Gatch DVD's is that the plotlines and scripts (whether dubbed or subbed) are really over the top melodramatic!
In some ways, Battle was better because the melodrama was dampened down somewhat
I have noticed thought that most Japanese shows (whether anime or not) have this high drama aspect to them .
Megs
__________________
"When I'm old, I don't want them to say of me, "She's so charming." I want them to say, "Be careful, I think she's armed." -G. Stoddart
Posted by meridianday on 16-02-2006 at 21:16:
I'm still going on the dubbed ones here. I've watched a couple of the series commentaries as well, the ones with Jun's and Joe's VAs and also half of the one with Ken's.
It's growing on me. I just watched episode 6 (the mini robots) and again everyone sounds like they're just having such a good time. Perhaps the script for ep 11 was particularly stilted, or I am brainwashing myself, because I'm not noticing really bad lines any more. I'm probably brainwashing myself 
I've found that I often have a problem with the voices for the G1s. While I liked Mark's, I found Ace's voice too childish, and Hunter Harris's voice I disliked so intensely that I couldn't get my head around his character at all. I can't actually remember what I thought about the english version of OAV Ken's voice. But I like this G1's voice. It's young without sounding too young. Which is odd, because according to the episode commentary the guy (Leraldo? what kind of name is that?) must be in his 30s.
Joe's voice I also like. On the other hand, I have a history of liking G2 voices and the only one I've ever disliked is OAV Joe's, which was done by the same guy that did Hunter Harris's voice IIRC. And Dirk's voice through most G-Force episodes was peculiar because the VA seemed to be trying to lipsynch to the characters, who of course finish every line with their mouths open because that's the way japanese works, so Dirk never finishes the last word of a line properly XD Not that Joe gets to do much talking in the early episodes, episode 6 being the one where he probably has the most lines.
Jun and Jinpei, yeah, they're there. Again, I haven't watched any episodes that really feature them yet. I'm not disliking them.
Ryu is getting a few good lines. Whenever I think of him, I shall think of one of his lines from this episode, where he's waxing about swimming in the warm seas around these tropical islands and the local girls, and then he says "Even better than cheese". Yeah, that'll be my Ryu catchphrase. Better than cheese. I bet he'll never get to say that again in any other episode.
Dubbing is a tricky business. I think it's probably quite hard to make the choice between staying loyal to the original words and writing stuff that sounds good. Either way, you lose. And then of course because anime is a cheap import for kids tv, it's often dubbed with voice actors who are, quite frankly, not very good. I'm thinking that perhaps the episodes done so far are a bit uneven in quality. I've made 2 lucky choices and 1 unlucky.
Anyway, no more for me tonight.
__________________
Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny." Posted by meridianday on 16-02-2006 at 21:20:
| quote: | |
|
Yeah, the melodrama does seem to be a stereotypical anime thing, just like the individual face shots when they have to react to something. In BOTP they'll be getting a bit melodramatic, and then Zark will pop up and say that everything is going to be ok, and then the peril will have passed, and I think that's how they watered it down quite effectively. Having said that, my daughter doesn't like BOTP because it's still too perilous for her. The characters are reacting so much to whatever danger there is, before Zark gets in there with his reassurances, and she's so worried by how worried the characters are that she doesn't want to watch any further. On the other hand, she might have grown past that a bit now. It's been a couple of years since mummy's tried to inflict it on her.
__________________
Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny." Posted by Elvin Ruler on 17-02-2006 at 03:46:
The melodrama is part of what makes it fabulous for me, but then, I have very cheesy tastes. I have GOT to ge my hands on the ADV. *shakes head* I need to prioritize how I waste my money. ^_~
__________________
What if there is a spoon? 
Posted by Madilayn on 18-02-2006 at 19:10:
| quote: | |
|
I've jut watched that tonight and was giggling remembering your post!
I'm more and more clearly seeing the difference between Gatch and BotP as I watch - and I have to say that in many aspects I do prefer BotP still. I can now see why Joe's frustrated about firing the Bird Missiles (asking every time before they fire them? That's not good. I'd be worried that by the time you get to ask Nambu and he gives his considered answer that the team could be very splatted! Thank the gods that Ryu's such a good pilot!)
It's interesting that in these early episodes of Gatch that Joe's not really a "team player". His sole motivation is revenge and he's definately working on a different level that the rest of them. I know that changes as we go on - but it's interesting to see at the beginning.
Ken is obviously the impulsive one of the group - even if he is a stickler for the rules (though he's nowhere near as anal as Mark is). IMHO - Mark's a much better leader than Ken as (except when he goes off half cocked on occasion) he does tend to work with his team's strengths - letting the person who can do the job best just get on with it, but always there supporting them. He and Ken both suffer from "heroitis" though.
Jun is a wimp - great fighter, but just doesn't stand up for herself. The US translations of her really did do her better justice.
When you think of episodes when either Ken or Joe hits Jun, and she just looks sad or bewildered, it really does rankle. I can't help but feel that if any of the boys hit Princess, they'd get hit back but good (and then have to face the other 4 boys after they healed from what Prin did to them).
I agree with Meridianday - I do like the voice actor that does Joe's voice. It's got that sort of calm, menacing thing going on. The other voices are also good - nice to see a good number of VA's rather than just a few doing obvious different voices (that did rankle with BotP). I definately don't like, however, the voice of RI. On the other hand, he and Cronus are still far too smarmy for everybody's own good (I think that the team would have been much better off if Joe/Jason just "accidentally" blew RI out of the sky one day)
I was watching the mechanodon epsiode (no. 4) which is a fave of mine, and wondered why they cut the scene of Naomi in bed with Ken and Jun watching over her (OUT of the gutter people!!!!) and can't see why it was cut, for a Zark voice over saying much the same thing. It would, I think, have made a great scene to leave in. Bleh!
I have to admit - I'm most looking forward to seeing those 20 eps that weren't BotP'd (especially the Puppy episode - with it's infamous "centrifuge school of medicine") and greedily await those.
__________________
"When I'm old, I don't want them to say of me, "She's so charming." I want them to say, "Be careful, I think she's armed." -G. Stoddart
Posted by Metaliant on 18-02-2006 at 23:38:
I have to admit. I do prefer BOTP over Gatchaman but the reason I prefer Gatchaman over BOTP is mainly Zark. Oh why, oh why does he say everything is fine and no body dies when Spectre destroys a city and the UN planes are robots when they get blown out of the sky but are flown by humans when they DON'T get blown out of the sky and win.
Another problem is that they often travel in space alot and if Spectre decides to make trouble with more than 1 plan at the same time, then G-force would be up the creek without a Fiery Phoniex, as they are only 1 team. Surely it would be better to have several teams working in other sectors of space to stop Spectre.
I think both series have good points and bad points and I do hope that the infamous "Centrifuge Method of Removing a Bullet" surgery never comes about.
I am sure Joe/Jason was sick afterwards. Poor man.
__________________
Eagle in Residence
Tempory Frisker
Posted by Metaliant on 18-02-2006 at 23:59:
When I first had broadband, I decided to look for anything to do with BOTP and when I found a link to http://www.vacuform.com/Gatchaman/GatchMain.htm, I found a lot that I didn't know or forgotten.
The person who made the site made several funny but true comments on BOTP,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BOTP was geared towards a young crowd; 7-Zark-7 was, in retrospect, the parental voice. He was also the worrier, the egomaniac, and the biggest control freak I've ever seen in my life. He reassured his watchers that all was well and good among the team members. And that nobody died in that surprise attack by Spectra on that city of 5 billion. (Right. Have you ever seen an evacuation of a city of 500? I rest my case.) And that those UN fighters they sent in to ward off Spectra were really just robots. (Fascinating that when the UN succeeded, humans were flying; when the UN crashed and burned, robots were flying. Seems to me that they should've just sent humans all the time.) Unfortunately, this is exasperating for the adult watcher. At the end of most episodes (for the 10th time), he reassured us that nobody died, or that all suffering was minimized.
This being the pervasive pattern of the show, it's a good thing the last few episodes were never translated. If they had been, Zark would have had a really tough time explaining that everything was going to be okay:
First of all, how would he have explained that Zoltar wasn't really a brother and a sister, Zoltar and Mala, but one person, Zoltar the Hermaphrodite? It's sort of the Michael Jackson/Janet Jackson question all over again:
Zark: "Okay, kids, it turns out that Zoltar has a really serious problem none of us knew about. But that's okay. Everything will be okay."
And when Jason discovered that he couldn't even stand up straight?
Zark: "Really, kids, it was just a really bad migraine. Everything will be okay."
And then Zoltar beats the living hell out of Jason, shoots him in the head thirty or forty times for good measure:
Zark: "Kids, there wasn't any blood. That means they missed. Really. All forty times." Zoltar is having so much fun beating Jason that he figures he'll drug him up, keep him alive a bit longer, and do it some more:
Zark: "Kids, sadism such as this is the result of a bad childhood. We need to feel sorry for him. And don't worry, everything will be okay."
And then Jason dies.
Zark: "Hey kids, don't worry, everything will be...oh, s**t."
And then Katse commits suicide, screaming "Die, die, everyone die!"
Zark jumps in after him. And you thought nobody ever died in this show.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you just imagine if any of this stuff was put in the series. My got, I would be laughing so much my sides would split.
__________________
Eagle in Residence
Tempory Frisker
Posted by Madilayn on 19-02-2006 at 00:37:
Ahh. Zark. For Zark alone, Jameson Brewer deserves to be SHOT. With a bird missle for preference.
From the interview with Jameson Brewer on the BotP dvd's, it seems obvious to me that he was the hadn behind all the gratutious cutting and bad animation inclusion.
The bad animation is absolutely unforgiveable - the standard of US animation was so much higher than that - but then they weren't using one of the US animation studios but a French one for some reason that nobody seems to have known (execpt JB had some connection to it....)
In many cases, I think that the BotP scripts were streets ahead of the Gatch ones - but then the reverse is often true as well.
And yes - the Gatch site with the Zark bit you quoted. Love it. DIE ZARK DIE (sorry - got a little overworked there).
I was interested in heaing the commentry of th eeop with the VA who does Joe that he was a BotP fan - which possibly makes him older than the others doing the VA-ing (the guy who plays Ken says in his interview that he came to Gatch through G-Force which was mid-80's).
And yes - I do have a habit of loving the voices for the G-2. But then, Jason was my first "bad boy" crush (and still is, I shall say) and lead me onto so many others (Starbuck, Han Solo (I was only 11 when I saw Star Wars the first time - give me a break!), Indiana Jones to name only a few) Ahh. Give me a man with a gun and an attitude - and a sexy uniform won't hurt either! 
__________________
"When I'm old, I don't want them to say of me, "She's so charming." I want them to say, "Be careful, I think she's armed." -G. Stoddart
Posted by Metaliant on 19-02-2006 at 07:21:
It's strange that in BOTP everyone is in the Rec room where Mark and Jason are playin table tennis without scoring, Princess playing guitar and Keyop playng the drums, playing the same tune and finally the big man himself, the Space Burger eating machine, Tiny (what a name for such a big guy) eating Space Burgers all the time.
The animation wasn't very good and the same scene was used alot.
Another thing was how on Earth (or even off it) did Zark see and hear everything but yet he didn't see Spectre ships coming to build secret bases on Earth or anywhere else and why did they use Susan on Pluto when it was his job? Also did those two finally get together and make little robots?
Thinking that I bought the first Vol of Gatchaman, I bought instead the OAVs. The dubbed voices were just like Gatchaman's dubbed voices, crap, but I did enjoy the animation and the story.
I think if BOTP was redone now, either in similar animation as Ghost In The Shell or in CGI then it could be better than the orignal BOTP in both animation, Zark being less control freak and the strange 3 deaths of Red Impulse would only be one death (well probably).
__________________
Eagle in Residence
Tempory Frisker
Posted by Ronin on 19-02-2006 at 09:09:
Aww come off it, the red rat deserves to die more than once.
And Zark has his uses, hes a good propaganda machine.
a useful corrective to people who cannot stand Zark is his recreation in the Botp movie on the Universal playback box set
Posted by meridianday on 19-02-2006 at 14:42:
Yes, you can't have BOTP with Zark, but you really don't need as much Zark as you get in BOTP. His reduced presence in the BOTP movie was a great improvement.
Colonel Cronus wasn't the same as Red Impulse, personality wise. He had a sense of humour and a degree of charm. He didn't turn up and beat up his son when everyone thought G3 was dead. Not to deny the faking his own death when G1 was 8, or the not telling G1 that he was his father when they would have had more than 2 minutes to sort things out, but still, Cronus and RI didn't do all the same things as each other. Red Impulse is often referred to as Rat Bastard, Colonel Cronus is not.
Unfortunately the RI episode that I've watched so far (I really must sit down and watch the ADV version of the ant episode) was the one with the particularly stilted script. So his VA didn't make much of an impression on me, as I was too busy failing to suspend my disbelief about other things.
__________________
Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny." Posted by Metaliant on 19-02-2006 at 17:14:
| quote: | |
|
Don't tell Bush and Blair that.
__________________
Eagle in Residence
Tempory Frisker
Posted by CricketBeautiful on 20-02-2006 at 15:56:
James Long is doing a great series of comparisons in Bird Scramble. Gatchaman as produced vs from the original production notes. Some of the scripts have huge differences. The Devil Stars originally wore short short shorts. Several Nambu doubles died in one version.
I'm trying to convince him to collect all his tribs and bind them.
__________________
Between stimulus and response there is a space.
In that space is our power to choose our response.
In our response lies our growth and our freedom.
- Viktor E. Frankl
Posted by meridianday on 20-02-2006 at 18:27:
| quote: | |
|
Oh now that would be interesting to read. Especially if he's willing to send it out via the ml or wherever to those of us who're not in bird scramble.
__________________
Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny."
Powered by: Burning Board Lite 1.1.2c © 2001-2004 WoltLab GmbH
English translation by Satelk
Site Coded by Cep