Gatchamania.net - Print: Cyborg technology

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Posted by TheSolarSailor on 13-05-2011 at 09:16:

Cyborg technology

In episode 20, Who is Leader X?, Dr. Henjinman has created an incredible cyborg technology that Galactor wants. Leader X cites the fact that Galactor has failed in their attempts to create cyborgs. Dr. Henjinman is able to see through Leader X and know exactly what he is...a living machine of sort. Of course, the good doctor underestimated Leader X's abilities, as he was not so confined to his quarters as he thought.

Anyhow, as I have been reviewing the series again, I have noticed that other cyborgs appeared since then, created by Galactor. In Episode 27, Galactor's Witch racer , leader X refers to Lucy as one of their greatest and most precious creations. Later in Episode 29, Gallack X The Demon Man, the amazing wrestler is a cyborg. Again in Episode 43, A Romance Destroyed by Evil, two human beings are transformed into cyborgs by the episodes end.

Do you think that Galactor's cyborg technology was all based on the work of Dr. Henjinman, the old man who initially created the cyborg horses? I had never really paid attention to this before until now, seeing that I am watching the episodes through. Has anyone else ever given this any thought before??

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Posted by Transmute Jun on 13-05-2011 at 14:29:

It might have been. There's also the possibility that Henjiman added a 'missing ingredient' to Galactor's knowledge base, which was them exploited.

In Gatchaman II, Dr. Raphael was supposed to have been working on cyborg technology for Galactor for many years. It's entirely possible that he was doing so (and created Lucy, among others) and that Katse and X merely lied to Henjiman (Galactor lying? What a shocker!) to get him to cooperate.

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Posted by amethyst on 13-05-2011 at 17:26:

The thing to remember is that show often used the term cyborg instead of robot which is more accurate for many of their creations.

A true cyborg is a combination of cybernetic and organic material: think Six Million Dollar Man, Joe in the second series or the couple from Romance Destroyed by Evil. Henjinman's horses and Gallack X are closer to robots, though, they could be robots covered with organic matter, in which they would then qualify as cyborg (think what the Borg tried do with Data in Star Trek: First Contact by offering him real skin).

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Posted by Transmute Jun on 13-05-2011 at 17:41:

You make a good point, Amethyst! Perhaps what they meant in the Henjiman episode was 'robots' and not 'cyborgs'!

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Posted by amethyst on 13-05-2011 at 19:19:

Could be, or they could have just used the words interchangeably. It could have also been a language or cultural understanding issue. However, for that I think we'd need James to come back and chime in, or maybe someone who was fluent in Japanese to speculate (my linguistic skills are limited to Englishes and Latin based languages).

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Posted by lborgia88 on 13-05-2011 at 21:34:

I think it could well be that the word "cyborg" did get used in some instances where "robot" (all non-organic) might have been the more accurate term.

I found a post by Tatsunokofan, where he points out that the Gatch writers, when planning Joe's transformation for Gatch II, switched back and forth in their notes between referring to him as an "android" and as a "cyborg." Maybe they weren't always as careful as they could have been about what terms they used...

http://www.gatchamania.net/thread.php?threadid=2704&sid=&page=2

quote:

Originally posted by tatsunokofan
Hi all!

quote:

James, when was Joe then changed from an android, as your post above suggests, to a cyborg, the term used the series?

This change was done somewhere between the first draft of the series Planning and a revision for that Planning. I've got a trio of documents that show this progression.

The first is the hand-written copy of the first draft, where Joe is listed as an android.

The second is an hand-written addendum to the first draft, which included a list of changes that occured to the first draft (Such as name changes like Dr. Einstein to Dr. Raphael and Sadomadonna to Gel Sadra, and that Joe is now a cyborg, not an android).

The third is a final, printed version of the Planning, which incorporates the changes and additions from the addendum into the first draft. Strangely, there are a few spots in the final version where they forget to make the change from referring to Joe as an android to a cyborg, so he switches from one to the other partway through!

quote:

In I the term cyborg has been misused in In I the term cyborg has been misused to apply to androids and robots that have the appearance of humans or animals but in reality are not.

You are correct, there have been times in Gatchaman when the term cyborg has been used for what are likely androids.

quote:

However, I read somewhere, not sure if it was here or Wendy's site, that the cyborg Joe in II and F was supposed to be based on or inspired by The Six Million Dollar Man, who was a true cyborg though I don't recall the term ever being used to represent him or the Bionic Woman or Max.

I know the term was used to describe them every so often, but Universal tended to stick with the trademarkable term "Bionic" instead. Don't forget, the first Six Million Dollar Man TV movie was based off of a novel by Martin Caidin named "Cyborg."

Anyway, whether Joe was inspired by either of the Bionic duo is a debatable point. Both series were immensely popular here, but were nowhere near as popular in Japan. Six Million Dollar Man aired between 1974 and 1974 in Japan, and the Bionic Woman did the same betwen 1977 and 1978, so it is possible that they did have some influence. However, I've never found any material, vintage or otherwise, that has compared Joe to Steve Austin or Jaime Sommers. So, we really don't know for certain that they provided any inspiration.

James

quote:

Originally posted by amethyst
A true cyborg is a combination of cybernetic and organic material:

Ryu's explanation to Jinpei of what a cyborg is in ep 21 is simpler, but I guess basically accurate -the early cyborgs that we see -the horses, Lucy, Gallack X, Julia & Romina etc. all seem to have all-mechanical bodies, though perhaps with an organic veneer for disguise, but it seems they could still have their normal brains.

In Joe's case though, in Gatch II, I don't think Ryu's explanation would hold up -it seems there like Joe is still largely organic -body and brain- though enhanced and reinforced with mechanical stuff.

Posted by TheSolarSailor on 14-05-2011 at 14:30:

quote:

In Gatchaman II, Dr. Raphael was supposed to have been working on cyborg technology for Galactor for many years. It's entirely possible that he was doing so (and created Lucy, among others) and that Katse and X merely lied to Henjiman (Galactor lying? What a shocker!) to get him to cooperate.

Transmute Jun, I sure do wish I could see Gatchaman II!!! I have read all about it, but I have only seen the last three or four episodes on a VHS with fan subtitles. Anyhow, Dr. Raphael surely does figure into this subject. I forgot to mention him when I was making the thread. I wonder if Raphael was working for Galactor all along, but Henjiman provided the certain something that enabled greater creations to come along, creations such as Lucy. Do you think it possible that Lucy had only become a cyborg as of recent (after the events of Episode 20), much like what we saw happen to Romina and Julia in A Romance destroyed by Evil? Leader X says in Episode 20 that they have failed in cyborg technology thus far, but maybe after getting a hold of Henjiman's work, they succeeded? Then again, maybe X was lying the whole time.

quote:

A true cyborg is a combination of cybernetic and organic material: think Six Million Dollar Man, Joe in the second series or the couple from Romance Destroyed by Evil. Henjinman's horses and Gallack X are closer to robots

amethyst, I understand the issue of the term "cyborg" being possibly misused at times, but I keep coming back to Dr. Henjiman being abducted by Galactor. Why? Galactor did not seem to being having any trouble at all with their robotics at this point in the series, so the horses he created must have offered something more that could be of use to Galactor. The organization already possess the skills for robotics, so if the horses were just robots, then what was so special about the Dr. Henjiman and his research to begin with? They may not have shown a more cyborg visual for the horses, but I cannot help but think that there was more to them than just nuts and bolts.

Iborgia88, thank you for reposting that very interesting material that James had written.

quote:

This goes along with my line of thinking that there was more to Henjiman's work than meets the eye.

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Posted by lborgia88 on 14-05-2011 at 15:14:

quote:

Originally posted by TheSolarSailor

I wonder if Raphael was working for Galactor all along, but Henjiman provided the certain something that enabled greater creations to come along, creations such as Lucy.

That's a good way to reconcile both Leader X's statement in ep 21, that Galactor hasn't been successful with cyborgs, with their subsequent "successes" (Lucy, Gallack X, Julia & Romina etc.) and also Gatch II's claim that Dr. Raphael has been working with cyborgs for many years.

Then again, Leader X lying to Dr. Henjiman is certainly in character!

Heck, maybe Dr. Raphael, up to that point, had been lying -for reasons of his own- to Katse and Leader X, claiming that he was still unable to make successful cyborgs, when really he could.

I can't recall if there's any canon for exactly when Dr. Raphael left Galactor. He might have been taking advantage of Galactor's resources to secretly develop and perfect his cyborg technology, all the while telling Katse and Leader X that he wasn't having any luck. Maybe Dr. Raphael fled Galactor shortly after episode 21 though, and subsequent cyborgs (Lucy, Gallack X, Julia and Romina etc.) were based on Dr. Henjiman's work more than his own.

Posted by Transmute Jun on 14-05-2011 at 17:04:

I recall James telling me that Dr. Raphael had fallen into disfavor with Galactor and been imprisoned at Cross Karakorum before the first series began. Who knows how much work he did for Galactor or what he learned during that time?

Hmmm... it could be that Henjiman was abducted because he could 'finish' Raphael's work, after Raphael refused to cooperate with Galactor anymore.

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Posted by Becky Rock on 14-05-2011 at 18:24:

I distinctly remember Joe telling Lucy it had been five years since they'd last seen each other/raced (translation error?), which stuck in my mind because that would have made Joe 20-21 at that time vice the 16 or 18 generally believed in order for him to have been racing.

Do we know if Lucy was human then?

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Posted by lborgia88 on 14-05-2011 at 18:31:

It's pretty solid canon that both Joe and Ken are 18 at the beginning of the first series. Joe's line to Lucy about not having seen her in five years has always made me wonder if the writers had made a mistake -forgetting how implausible that would be. I don't see how Joe could have known Lucy when he was thirteen, unless he was just hanging around racetracks, as young teen, watching and trying to talk to the drivers, and Lucy was doing the same thing (or racing back then, if she's older than Joe.)

I've generally assumed that Lucy was human when Joe first knew her, but I don't think it's ever revealed exactly when she became a cyborg.

Posted by clouddancer on 14-05-2011 at 20:00:

I had thought along the line you had LB, that Joe was hanging around the tracks as a young teen and that is when he met Lucy. I also wondered if she might be older, if by only a few years, than Joe.

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Posted by Transmute Jun on 14-05-2011 at 20:07:

I've always just taken it that the writers didn't think about that timeline... they just wanted to make it seem like it had been a long while since Joe had seen her, and therefore it was enough time for her to become a cyborg.

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