Gatchamania.net (http://www.gatchamania.net/index.php)
- [Speak Up!] (http://www.gatchamania.net/board.php?boardid=500)
-- General Discussion (http://www.gatchamania.net/board.php?boardid=2)
--- Keyop: the new way to speak (http://www.gatchamania.net/threadid.php?threadid=3389)
Posted by Transmute Jun on 15-09-2010 at 15:17:
Keyop: the new way to speak
When I watched BOTP as a kid, Keyop's speech drove me nuts! Now that I'm older (and more familiar with Jinpei) I can deal with it in small doses. The rumor goes that they made Keyop speak that way to cut out all of Jinpei's naughty words, but IIRC the real reason was more along the lines of the writers not wanting to give Keyop too much to say, and the 'lip flaps' had to be filled in.
Personally, I find this kind of sad (either explanation, actually). I mean, couldn't they have given him a *little* more to say?
That being said, let's talk about Keyop's burble. Why do *you* think he does it? You can come up with your own ideas and be creative. Do you have any favorite noises that he did, or ones that drove you nuts?
Personally, Peril of the Pyramids is a weird one for Keyop. When his 'mother' hugs him, he purrs in happiness like a cat... it's rather disturbing, But then later there's a scene where he's running away from the Spectrans and contacting Mark on his bracelet, and he burbles in Morse Code. Too funny! I also love his 'beatboxing' in the Cuban Boys remix of the BOTP theme. (And yes, Springie, I dare you to put up some of your 'rapping Keyop' pics...)
Anyone else have thoughts?
__________________
Posted by amethyst on 15-09-2010 at 15:31:
I never got into Keyop or his burbles. However, he was my sister-in-law's favorite character. One of her brother's stuttered as a child and it was neat for her to see a character that didn't speak perfectly.
As a writer, I take advantage of her opinion and write him with a stutter rather than trying to create a background for it.
__________________
Perspective Alters Reality
Posted by lborgia88 on 15-09-2010 at 15:44:
I guess I've always thought of his voice as being akin to a speech impediment, like stuttering. Maybe it was a way to draw some sympathy to him or, more likely to me, make him something of an inspiration -I mean, he's the sort of kid who might have a miserable time in school, getting teased, but his speech problem doesn't stop him from being on an elite team of defenders of the galaxy.
I've also wondered if the BOTP creators were uncomfortable about depicting someone so obviously young in what is basically a government-sanctioned, life-threatening combat role. I mean, I'm sure no kid watching the show ever would have thought that they themselves might be issued weapons and told go fight enemy soldiers, but the show's creators could have been looking for a way to clearly differentiate Keyop as a "grown from a single cell in a lab" kid and therefore "not like you kiddies watching at home."
As for Keyop himself, I've always figured that, since he seems to be the only example of such bioengineering that we ever see, whatever science was used to produce him is still very experimental and not perfected, and that his peculiar speech is the result of some neurological quirk, or that he's actually a lot younger than he seems and was somehow rapid-grown to reach a useful size in, say, only four or five years, but that speech ability doesn't keep up with the rapid-growing process.
Or heck, maybe he's got some sort of extra-terrestrial DNA in the mix, and it manifests itself by causing him to emit alien speech patterns.
Posted by UnpublishedWriter on 15-09-2010 at 16:13:
Jinpei looks, sounds, and acts like a 10-year-old. For the moral guardians of the 1970s, a kid who teased his sister, made smart-ass remarks, and tended to disobey his elders was unacceptable, so they gave us Keyop. And since Jinpei could be counted on to open his mouth at every opportunity, they had to figure out a way to fill the time. Hence the burbles, broops, and other noises.
Then they had to explain the goofy noises, and that's how we got Keyop the artificial boy. (Given the time pressure the producers worked under, I doubt the writers were thinking deep thoughts about children in combat.)
IMO, the rumor that Jinpei had a potty-mouth came about when word got out that Jinpei spoke 'inappropriately.' That's the sort of weasel-wording people use when they don't want to come right out and say what they really mean, and so others assumed the worst. (This is what happens when you rely on euphemisms and 'polite' words instead of plainly, but tactfully, stating your case.)
TJ's Tough to Swallow is a very funny version of why Keyop talks the way he does. Hint: Zark was a bad robot.
In my version, his brain works so fast his mouth can't keep up. It's gotten better over the years.
__________________
Benefits, not features; benefits, not features
Posted by gatchamarie on 15-09-2010 at 16:15:
| quote: | |
|
That's how I see it with my grown-up eyes!I'm the least one who can contribute to this thread, not being so familiar with BotP, and having watched just a very few episodes a long, long time ago, but I remember seeing Keyop as a boy with some kind of speech problem when I was a child. It was only many years later that I had come to the knowledge of how Keyop had been created, and what might have been the reasons for his way of speaking!
His speech did bug me a little, though, even then! The weirder noises, which, sometimes, came out of his mouth, indicated something far more disturbing than a simple speech disorder, and, even as a child, I remember not being so comfortable with that side of the character already!
I find it unfair that the writers did not want to give Keyop a lot to say! Jinpei was as an important character as the others in Gatchaman ... they could have, at least, given a try to adapt Jinpei's lines into ones that fitted a more child-friendly BotP, if that were the real problem, instead of subduing him! I don't mean to seem harsh, but, IMHO, when effort had already been put in to include extra, futile dialogue (referring to Zark's and Susan's conversations, and Mark's and Princess's conversations with Zark), additional effort to make Keyop's lines more conforming with BotP than Jinpei's wouldn't have hurt!
__________________
To be or not to be a gatchamaniac - that's the dilemma!
Posted by Transmute Jun on 15-09-2010 at 17:00:
Marie, I totally agree with you. I think it's a shame that they couldn't have given Keyop proper words to say, instead of all of the burbling. And you make a good point about how thy gave Zark so many lines, yet Keyop had so few.
You've got some good ideas, LB. I think you might be right about the producers wanting to make Keyop seem *different* from the 'kids at home'. But unfortunately, his poor command of the language made him appear less intelligent, and thus I always felt far superior to Keyop when watching the program as a child. While many of the episodes were produced in a hurry, there was clearly a lot of time spent on series planning, as you can see from the information provided by Jason Hofius' book.
I love the idea that maybe he's making alien noises... that his DNA/tongue/vocal chords is configured to alien speech. But still, they could have made him speak differently (altered grammatical patterns, such as Star Wars did with Yoda) without making him seem sub-intelligent.
Amethyst and UW, you make good points about the stuttering, but Keyop's speech impediment is FAR beyond stuttering. Even stuttering is making 'language' sounds, albeit not necessarily being able to control them. My brother had a severe stuttering problem for many years, and I recall how long it would take him to say things sometimes. But Keyop's noises were incredibly bizarre and disturbing, and nothing like what comes to mind when I think of stuttering.
__________________
Posted by amethyst on 15-09-2010 at 22:19:
| quote: | |
|
I had never thought about it like that until my sister-in-law brought it up. But I still prefer to write him as a stutterer rather than trying to write the noise. I'll definitely agree that the noises are bizarre and annoying, but not sure if they are disturbing (but then I'll also admit to having a high squick tolerance, so many things that should seem disturbing don't)
__________________
Perspective Alters Reality
Posted by gatchgirl on 15-09-2010 at 23:15:
| quote: | |
|
LB, speak for yourself... in my youth I saw myself as a fierce fighter in RP.
You do bring up a lot of good points in your post... I know in my fic (that's still in slow progress) he does grow out of his burbles and such... I do find myself doing weird sounds at certain times (like a good foot rub and such
__________________
" No gratitude needs to be voiced, your mind speaks to us!"
Racer by day, Feather Thrower all the time!
Posted by Garnet on 16-09-2010 at 02:31:
Okay. Been thinking about this for about two hours, since I first read the tread.
I'm one of the odd ones here, I know. I actually like Keyop. He's my favorite character and the thing that drew me to him when I first saw BotP was his sppeech.
I won't go into the whole explanation of all that, unless someone wants me to.
As for how I feel about the writers not giving him more to really say; yeah, I wish they'd have done more. They could have kept the odd speech but toned it down some and really used it to develop the character more. If they'd have had more time, who knows what they might have come up with.
My theories on why he has the speech problem in the first place have evolved over time. I now believe that there was a glitch of some kind that happened in the genetic coding that caused some of it. I also have portrayed him as spending the first two or so years of his life in a lab where he was not given the social interaction that all infants and toddlers need. There may have been some problems involving the implants as well. He didn't learn to really talk till after the implants were done. I know this sounds complicated, but things like this are rarely traced to one little element.
All of this combined to cause him to have the strange speech pattern. Also, one thing I have noticed is that he rarely says the work "I". I have my own theory about that too that I haven't as clearly developed, yet.
I do believe that his speech inproved as he grew up, but he still had a lot of trouble with it. It was something he would deal with all his life to one degree or another.
These are just my opinions for what they're worth.
Posted by gatchamarie on 16-09-2010 at 05:16:
Yours are great ideas, Garnet! The experimental phase, and the lack of Keyop's interaction with other of the same age during his infancy, are good reasons for his slow development of speech. Moreover, like you and others have pointed out, I also agree that his speech would have improved as he grew older ... not to a perfect extent, but enough to compare to normal.
__________________
To be or not to be a gatchamaniac - that's the dilemma!
Posted by nuni on 16-09-2010 at 12:58:
| quote: | |
|
I think that is a very likely explanation, LB. For myself, as a child watching BotP, I don't think I even thought twice about Keyop's strange speech pattern. As a kid, I guess these things weren't so important. I just accepted the narrator's explanation and went from there. It's only now as an adult that I look back and thing 'that's unusual.' I share everyone else's regret that Keyop wasn't more developed as character as Jinpei was in Gatchaman.
Posted by Transmute Jun on 16-09-2010 at 13:13:
Garnet, I think you have some very valid ideas as to why Keyop's speech might be the way it is. There are all kinds of possibilities a writer can work with, and since we know he was created in a lab, it can be fully explored. As you say, the idea of the implant messing with his (perhaps not entirely human) brain can be another factor. Having been 'force grown' or having limited social interaction can be another factor.
Garnet, I would be interested in learning why you were attratced to Keyop as a character, if yo uare willing to share.
I agree with everyone who said that he could easily grow out of it. In fact, for Keyop's sake, I hope he does!
And I also noticed that Keyop doesn't use first person 'I'... but at least he doesn't speak of himself in third person, like Elmo! 
__________________
Posted by Garnet on 16-09-2010 at 13:35:
I'll have to write up my reasons when I have more time. We're buried at work right now and I'm sneaking onto the computer on a very short break.
I'll type it up and post it tonight. Thanks for asking, TJ.
Posted by meridianday on 16-09-2010 at 19:02:
There was that G-Force in the future episode where I think the adult Keyop had no speech impediment. But, of course, it wasn't the real Keyop.
__________________
Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny." Posted by Transmute Jun on 16-09-2010 at 20:28:
What I have found interesting is that there are a few episodes where Keyop is thinking... and he has the burbling while he is thinking. What is that? Shouldn't he think without the extraneous noise?
__________________
Posted by Garnet on 16-09-2010 at 21:54:
The burbling in his thoughts is a little disturbing, I do have to agree.
Okay, as for why I was drawn to Keyop when I first saw BotP, here's the story.
I was 15 when the show starting airing in our area that made me a little older than the average fan.
I was always a bit of a geek. I had liked Star Trek and other science fiction for several years, so when BotP started, I was interested. I think I actually found it by chance one day.
When I first heard that Keyop was a genetic construct, I was curious. Then I heard him talk for the first time and I about lost my mind. Here was a person in a series who was less than the ideal but was still a valued member of the team. He was treated just like any other member and expected to do his fair share. He had an obvious nonconformity, but it didn't define him as a character and he didn't have some super-skill that off-set it.
Now this was important to me because I had a disability that most people wouldn't notice right at first, but once they were around me for a while anyone could figure it out. I could almost, but not quite fit in.
Up till that moment, most, if not all, characters on any type of TV series were either the ideal human being or were very stereotypical. The common myth was, and still is sometimes, that anyone who has any type of disability has to have something amazing that makes up for it. An example is that all blind people have musical talent. The other stereotype was that the person who was disabled had to helped and was not expected to pull his/her own weight.
I was so excited that I wanted to hug the character and the person who had come up with this idea.
I also found a bit of a commonality in the not having a family thing. Yes, I had a loving family, but for a lot of my school life I was not with them. I went to a state-run school for the blind that was several miles from my home and the choice was either spend a lot of time getting to and from school or stay and actually be involved in after-school activities. I had very few friends away from school.
I know that there were at least three or four of us that watched BotP when we could and, I think, all of us thought Keyop was pretty cool.
Hope this makes sense.
Thanks for letting me share this.
Posted by clouddancer on 16-09-2010 at 22:16:
Garnet, I love your theory (ies) about Keyop's speech. I also find your story very interesting about how, and why, you connected to Keyop.
I have been enjoying this thread and reading everyone's ideas on why Keyop speaks the way he does.
In my AU I could not come up with any theories that I could work with, so I dropped him from my stories for many years. I actually killed him off and the team worked with four rather than five members. (I think this is why I find it so easy to get into everyone else's minds but not Keyop's.)
Now that I have "returned" Keyop to the team I enjoy seeing other people's ideas on his speech impediment and how I might deal with it, or how much of it I might include in my AU.
__________________
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.
Posted by Transmute Jun on 16-09-2010 at 22:54:
Garnet, that is a very moving story, and I can appreciate why he is your favorite character. It just goes to show how BOTP touched your life in a way that the producers may never have imagined. Clearly the show has touched many of us, but to me, your story is unique.
Thank you for sharing it with us.
__________________
Posted by gatchgirl on 16-09-2010 at 23:08:
Garnet, thanks for sharing your RL reason for the love of the show, and more idepth Keyop.
__________________
" No gratitude needs to be voiced, your mind speaks to us!"
Racer by day, Feather Thrower all the time!
Posted by Garnet on 16-09-2010 at 23:11:
Thanks, guys.
Powered by: Burning Board Lite 1.1.2c © 2001-2004 WoltLab GmbH
English translation by Satelk
Site Coded by Cep