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--- The weirdest thing happened to me last night (http://www.gatchamania.net/threadid.php?threadid=3199)
Posted by amethyst on 28-06-2010 at 18:48:
The weirdest thing happened to me last night
It was weird, frustrating, controlling, manipulative, and jus so not what I needed as I was working on something that I hoped would diffuse a stressful situation (from all signs, so far it has so at least the interruption and loss of energy hasn't seemed to have been hurt by it).
My daughter, who is a very low key emotional girl (yeah, she uses that to manipulate things, so she's not completely innocent) had this friend who is a complete Type A, in your face personality, she has to be in charge of everything and can do everything better.
After a very stressful two year friendship, my daughter has tried to end the friendship. What happens then is this other girl tells the others how rude my daughter is. It has caused my daughter to have minor self harm behaviors (she pulls out her eye lashes) and moderate to major anxiety attacks ranging from migraines to near cattatonic states to raging manias. In a family where moderate mental health issues are the norm, it's not a good thing.
Anyway, the mother of this girl and another stopped by my apartment at nine o'clock and demanded to talk with me about the children. She had four things she wanted to ask about and didn't want me to interrupt.
It ended up being mostly about me and the way I handled things with the exception of one incident that I did not know about. I listened. I agreed where I agreed and explained a few things that needed further explaining.
What got to me was she expected me to discipline my daughter for a transgression but expected me to believe that her child was a saint.
The two incidents in question:
1. My daughter let the air out of her daughter's bike tires. Was it wrong? Yes. Would I have disciplined my daughter had I known? Yes. In the grand scheme of things, was it worth a trip at that time of night to confront me? Considering there was not permanent damage done, no.
2. At the end of a four hour car ride for a school field trip, the other girl bullied my daughter when I could not pull over for a bathroom. My daughter can hold it longer than anyone I know, but this girl was going out of her way to talk about water and pee in any way she could and finding it funny. She had been asked numerous times to stop by myself, my daughter and another girl in the car (the daughter of the other woman who came to my door last night). Finally my daughter screamed at her, in tears, to shut up. She told my daughter that she can't tell her to shut up. So me, I get angry at this point, turning around while still driving, and yell, "No, but I can, Now SHUT UP!" If we had not been so close to home that it was not worth stopping, the girl would have been out of my car. It had passed from teasing to bullying.
She's the same girl who tried to get the neighborhood boys in trouble during a squirt gun fight. She'd stand their with a squirt gun in hand and say she didn't want to get wet, when she got wet she'd go to their parents' and tattle. After listening to this to the point that she was getting the boys angry and someone would get hurt, I went out and addressed her behavior with another parent who heard the same thing. (Her mother wanted to talk to me about that because she cried to mommy the boys were shooting her in the eye. Not true, because I heard my daughter telling her to put the squirt gun down and leave the fight area if she didn't want to get wet.)
I slammed the door in the woman's face when she expected me to discipline my daughter for the bike thing, but when I told her that I expected the same with the bullying, I was told what a sweet wonderful polite child her daughter was. Anyone remember Eddie Haskell?
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Posted by condorcandi on 28-06-2010 at 19:56:
Oh good grief.
My son is a minor troublemaker in his own right, and I don't make excuses for him. (The primary issue is his father does not exercise his visitation rights.) What that woman wanted was not only wrong, it was extremely disrespectful.
My sympathies on having to deal with such a person. I used to work in a daycare (until 4 years ago) and we definitely had our share of 'my child is perfect' parents. 
And at that time of night? What were they thinking?
I hope that everything goes better for you.
__________________
Candi
Hollywood is a land of money and cowardice.
-Henry A. Lee, Cracked.com columnist
Posted by Ebonyswanne on 28-06-2010 at 22:54:
Wow, I can understand why you're upset. To be confronted at your door at 9pm at night about this kind of stuff.
My eldest is a bit fiesty sometimes, but I pull her up a 3 for anything that appears to be bullying behaviour and she's pulled in line for it and teach her how to handle the situation in very simple terms.
Yesterday she did me proud when in a situation with 4yr old girl who was trying to boss her around(pulling at her top, trying to make her play were she wanted to play in the playground it was looking to turn into something ugly any minute when I was watching them,) ; she gave girl Condor glare but didn't punch her and shove her roughly away like she usually does. Instead she just glared, got the girls fingers of her jacket and went to play on some other equipment and ignored the girl when she approached her to play again.
I felt finally I'm getting somewhere! She understanding to walk away or get an adult.
Its harder work with a strong willed child but well worth it. I know I have one who falls in line fast, delicate and just does as she's told most of the time and the other one is a Condor....Beautiful girls, just need direction thats all.
For me, I would have wanted clarity but not at 9pm. I would call the next day, set up a time for coffee without kids and discuss whats going on between the girls, more so if I know the mother or think she's a reasonable person. After all my daughter has fist fights with a little boy who's 4 and who is as strong-willed as she is, ( I'm not proud of that by the way, but it happens when she clashes with a kid sometimes, she's 3 and is still learning its wrong to hit other kids because they annoy you etc,) they clash badly, I spoke to his mother about it last week and she appreciated me explaining my observations of them playing together how it starts etc, (I didn't pin it all on her son,) we now work together to bring to pair of them inline with the fighting, because they both start it most of the time, through the course of play.
If the parents unreasonable about (going for coffee, or just talking about kids clashes) that then to me its a case of plan B...not sure what that is yet...LOL!! I haven't been in it.
I agree with Candi, it was wrong of her to turn up like she did, that just bad form for something thats really between you're girls as friends, and could be sorted out eventually through good advice from school or parents.
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Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
Posted by amethyst on 28-06-2010 at 23:03:
Funny, I was urked by the time and the manner, but what sent me over the top was the insistence that her girl was an angel and that miine was the one in the wrong. If she had even just said, "I'll definitely talk to her about it," whether she actually did or not, instead of defending the child the conversation would have ended much differently.
I've got no reason to punish my daughter now as she's being punished enough by the other friend who has chosen the other girl instead of her. Probably out of fear that she'll be treated like my daughter has, which is sad (even sadder that the mother cannot see it) or that other parents cannot see that this girl is a a walking example of Joan Jett's "Fake Friends"; she chooses shy, quiet, or younger girls who seem to lake confidence and that she can boss around.
I told Nicole that they are entering middle school next year and the social dynamics will change so much and no one will tolerate the other girl's behavior.
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Perspective Alters Reality
Posted by Madilayn on 28-06-2010 at 23:04:
Wow - so not a good thing to happen at 9pm! SHe could at least have phoned first and checked if you were there.
The problem I've sometimes found with these kids who bully is that they do know that they're doing the wrong thing and deliberatelyl lie to their parents about what they've done.
Kids aren't dumb. As most parents know, they'll say just about anything to avoid being punished, and are probably the most accomplished spin doctors that you will ever come across!
I'm sorry that this is stressing you out, Ame! Feel free to write some goon-butt kicking to try to work it out!
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"When I'm old, I don't want them to say of me, "She's so charming." I want them to say, "Be careful, I think she's armed." -G. Stoddart
Posted by amethyst on 28-06-2010 at 23:11:
Thanks, Mads, and everyone. Really just needed to get it out.
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Posted by condorcandi on 28-06-2010 at 23:14:
Kids are constantly underestimated. Esp. by those who don't have any and don't work closely with them.
What drives me nuts is the people who will believe their kid's solo word against the testimony of several others -including adults. Sounds like the kind that hit your door, Amethyst; her child can do no wrong and the world is out to get them. Can't reason with people like that, and I admire your daughter for getting out of that 'friendship'. In the long run, it could only be destructive.
__________________
Candi
Hollywood is a land of money and cowardice.
-Henry A. Lee, Cracked.com columnist
Posted by Transmute Jun on 28-06-2010 at 23:36:
Wow, this other girl sounds like a piece of work!
I think the best part of all of this is that the 'friendship' (if you can call it that) is definitely over. At least you can now pick up the pieces, teach your own daughter some lessons about dealing with this kind of behavior, and then move on and mature. It's not much of a silver lining, but keep focused on that.
I'm sorry this has been so rough for you. I can't believe that other woman came over to hassle you in your own home at 9 pm! I would have kicked her out!
Hope things are better today.
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Posted by Garnet on 28-06-2010 at 23:46:
I can so relate to this. My daughter talks tough, but she's actually a pretty good kid, for other people. She's had issues with the local bully girl almost since we moved into this neighborhood. This girl has started rumors about her, threatened to beat her up, even basically challenged her to fistfight. My daughter simply chose not to show up for that one, even when they called her cell phone and harrassed her.
I had a conversation with the girl's mom, after getting the number and a recommendation from the school to do so. The other girl's mom was one of those that knows her child can be bad, but not how bad. She wears rose-colored glasses. All I heard was how hard Alexis had been working to get along with everybody and that it all had to be a misunderstanding. Yeah, right. Alexis is now in the districts alternative school, which at least means she doesn't ride the bus with Amaya anymore. We just have to deal with her in the neighborhood. It makes for a long summer because Amaya doesn't like to go anywhere by herself, and she doesn't have many friends near us because of this girl and her friends, because she worries that she's going to get jumped.
Do I think my kid is perfect? Hell no. Do I believe any parent that says something cannot be their child's fault at all, Nope to that one too.
Hugs Amethyst.
Posted by amethyst on 28-06-2010 at 23:48:
Oh, no, we talked outside in the middle of the apartment complex, as she asked "to talk away from the children", but who cares about the neighbors with their windows wide open.
The middle school has a great program that teaches ways to deal with bullying and I've told her if the girl doesn't catch a clue, just go to the office and report the behavior. It will stop after a few LoPs. I just need to watch my daughter to make sure she doesn't do anything that could even seem remotely antognistic to the girl.
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Posted by amethyst on 28-06-2010 at 23:54:
Thanks Garnet. I think some of this comes from the baby-boomer generation and the "we all need to get along" philosophies that are grounded understanding human emotion but not understanding human development.
Children learn from a very early age to push limits. There's a reason beyond the simple phonetics that No is one of the first words a child will learn. As they get older the limits change and they learn to get sneakier about it too. Heck, I think I'd be more worried if I knew my kids weren't doing anything wrong because I'd be wondering what they were doing that I don't know about that could be really wrong.
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Perspective Alters Reality
Posted by Garnet on 28-06-2010 at 23:56:
Exactly!
Posted by condorcandi on 28-06-2010 at 23:57:
So she not only shows up at your house late, she wants to air her dirty laundery in public? What a piece of work.
Good for you going through the school. And I'm glad they've been helpful. Some aren't; I've been there. Fortunately for only a year.
__________________
Candi
Hollywood is a land of money and cowardice.
-Henry A. Lee, Cracked.com columnist
Posted by Ebonyswanne on 29-06-2010 at 08:40:
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I understand Amethyst.
Its good to get it out, parenting can be so hard at times. I'm only just starting to get a taste of what other parents can be like in situations that come up with my little girls in the playground or at playgroup. I have little tolence for bad behaviour from them and boy do they know it! But its not to say especially my eldest daughter will try to get away with things... even at 3yrs old. i figured if I don't get on top of it now, and she learns to respect others and her boundaries, then it will only be worse when she gets to school. Its an ongoing process isn't it.
__________________
Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
Posted by Springie on 29-06-2010 at 14:20:
Wow...as a teacher, I see it all the time, too. It amazes me how some parents are in total denial about their own children, but are anxious to jump all over other people's kids. There are some crazy people out there, huh?
I can't believe the woman would have the nerve to come to your door at 9:00 ranting and raving like that. She should've at least waited until morning...
It sounds like you are well rid of them...
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Posted by amethyst on 03-07-2010 at 00:21:
The other mother, who's daughter really wasn't involved in most of this but has been brought into this drama by virtue of mutual friendship, stopped and talked to my husband today and apologized. Over the last few days, I've considered stopping to see her at a reasonable hour and have looked to see if I could catch her while we were at our cars, but never did to apologize myself for getting angy. Her only crime was not being knowledgable enough of the situation she got drafted in. Over the last week, though, has she got an awakening as her daughter became the intended target.
Hopefully, Nicole hasn't lost this other friend completely.
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Posted by condorcandi on 03-07-2010 at 00:37:
I hope not either. I also hope this doesn't wreck whatever friendship you have with the mother.
As for Miss Snooty 'my child can do no wrong': 
__________________
Candi
Hollywood is a land of money and cowardice.
-Henry A. Lee, Cracked.com columnist
Posted by amethyst on 03-07-2010 at 01:00:
I can be polite and other than being angry about the incident I don't hate the mother or the child. If anything I feel sorry for them both, but the daughter will have a very rude awakening somewhere between high school, college, and early career if she doesn't learn boundries now. She's also on the road to an eating disorder. I should have known that I wouldn't get anywhere, but when she came to me after brushing me off a year ago, I figured it was worth a shot (It doesn't solve the immediate anger, but it helps in not holding a grudge). Anyway, my daughter will likely only see her for a few class periods next year and I'll be talking to the Girl Scout coordinator to get her to change troops, something we wanted to do anyone, this just gives us a valid reason.
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