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--- I prefer BotP to Gatchaman - and some reasons why (http://www.gatchamania.net/threadid.php?threadid=3061)
Posted by Madilayn on 24-04-2010 at 15:13:
I prefer BotP to Gatchaman - and some reasons why
I’ve been thinking the past few days – watching Gatchaman & also watching BotP. After watching all but about 24 episodes of Gatchaman (from the middle of the series), I’ve come to the conclusion that I really do prefer BotP to Gatchaman.
I shall now duck for cover at the speaking of heresy!
I want to tell you why I prefer BotP. Some of it is to do with the fact that I knew it first – however for me it doesn’t evoke pleasant childhood memories. I loved the show when I first saw it, and continued to love it over the years.
I prefer the BotP characters. To me, they are more of a team than the Gatch team. Mark, IMHO is a much better leader who leads by example. I find that Ken very much is a “do as I say not as I do†leader who tends to put his own needs first.
I also like most of the stories better. Yes – they’ve been cut the hell out of and I can’t see the reasons for some of the cuts. I abhore Zark and the additional animation. But – I just like the stories.
Some of the Gatch stories are just too melodramatic for me – and interestingly the BotP ones that I dislike are also the ones that are more melodramatic.
I love the voice actors. They did such an outstanding job in conveying character and nuance – and when you think that they were doing it without visual reference, it makes it even more astonishing.
I suppose, it’s hard to put in words the exact reason – but I suppose it’s like reading a fic. Some fics speak to you louder than others.
For me, BotP speaks to me much louder than Gatchaman does. I enjoy both series, and appreciate Gatchaman but I prefer BotP.
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Posted by amethyst on 24-04-2010 at 15:35:
Maddy I hear what you are saying. If given a choice, it would be hard for me to choose, but unconsciously I do choose.
When I sit to write, I go to the BotP characters first. I go to the Gatch characters if I don't think something will work in BotP.
When I go to read fanfiction, I usually look for BotP stories first. I know the characters and the universe better. Plus I still have a hard time with the understanding of the characters as they change in the sequels, most of what I know of them comes from these discussions and fanfiction -- not really the way to know the characters.
I do however love seeing the way the show was supposed to be seen, particularly since much of what was cut, was from my favorite character.
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Posted by green on 24-04-2010 at 15:35:
It's funny, but even though I grew up with BotP, I prefer Gatchaman...
But, then again, having my experience in Japan, maybe that's why I feel more connected to the characters - I get them and their behaviour... For the most part, I still don't get Joe slapping Jun in The Birdmissile of Bitterness.
And no Zark.
And, I'm sorry, Joe's baritone is just so much more drool inducing than Jason's voice purrrrrr but in saying that, I'm not completely immune to it either... *sigh*
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Posted by Madilayn on 24-04-2010 at 15:43:
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Exactly the same for me, Amethyst!
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"When I'm old, I don't want them to say of me, "She's so charming." I want them to say, "Be careful, I think she's armed." -G. Stoddart
Posted by amethyst on 24-04-2010 at 15:46:
Yeah, but you've gotten your stories finished. Most of mine are still in varying stages of writing on my computer or in a notebook somewhere.
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Posted by lborgia88 on 24-04-2010 at 16:24:
I would never have learned of the existence of Gatchaman or gone about acquiring all the ADV episodes a few years ago, were it not for all the happy memories I had of watching Battle of the Planets in the late 70s. But my memories of it were, by late 2006, very faded and patchy.
And I loved watching Gatchaman!
Lately, I've been making an effort to watch more Battle of the Planets episodes and really try to re-familiarize myself with it and its characters. I still have a ways to go, certainly, but I am enjoying it and appreciating its good aspects (good characterization and voice acting talents in particular).
But, I like Gatchaman better and I think I always will. It could partly be the historian in me, tending to appreciate the most "original source" but mostly, I think, I like its stories better. Their more realistic depiction of conflict -violence, torture, mass civiilian casualties etc.- appeals to me. I also like the fact that Gatchaman has big, muti-episode story arcs that gradually build to dramatic (and often tragic) conclusions. (Most of the TV shows that I've really loved -Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the new Battlestar Galactica- have arc-heavy structures).
As well, the fact that the Team members themselves have more flawed personalities in many ways, and often don't get along especially well, to me, just feels... a lot like real life. Take Joe (my favourite) -he's frequently mean to Ryu, angry, rather too quick to solve situations with violence and too prone to hiding his feelings and problems, but then he turns around and shows incredible loyalty to his friends, and courage, and lets slip these little glimpses of his kinder, gentler side every now and then. Add in his whole big, angsty story arc, and I am just captivated every time.
So, I love the happy nostalgic vibe that BOTP gives me and, as I see and re-remember more of it, I find myself enjoying it more and more. But I think Gatchaman will always be my favourite.
Posted by Transmute Jun on 24-04-2010 at 16:37:
I have a special place in my heart for BOTP, because it was the show I adored as a kid, and included the characters I always admired. Yep, I've been longing to be Princess since I was a young 'un. 
But having seen Gatchaman, for me, there is no comparison. The depth to the stories, the character development, the humor of Jinpei... all of these things are absent (for me) when I watch BOTP. I understand the limitations BOTP was under, but even making allowance for that, many of the stories to me seem inconsistent and poorly-thought out... as if someone thought up the beginning without paying any attention to what was going to happen at the end.
Plus, Keyop and Zark drive me insane. Rover and Susan aren't much better. And as UW has stated on more than one occasion, Chief Anderson's character was really watered down, as they passed off much of what he should be saying.doing to Zark.
I do agree that the voice actors on BOTP were terrific, and they worked well together. They added some fantastic music to the show, and made it (for the most part) blend well with the Gatchaman music. They had cooler names for the communicators, and 'Transmute!'. But in the long run, for me, this doesn't make up for the wonderful stories, humor and character development in the original.
JMHO, of course. The point is that all of these shows are worth watching, so I would still 
anyone to make sure they watch all of both series!
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Posted by gatchamarie on 24-04-2010 at 17:45:
Useless to say why I prefer Gatchaman over BOTP!
Apart from the similar reasons already pointed out by others who would choose Gatchaman as a favourite, I find myself the other way round of most of you.
I've grown up with Gatchaman, BOTP being the series I hardly know and the least I remember. And I have to be honest ... I do try to get a glimpse of BOTP but I find myself that I hardly can due to my loyalty for Gatchaman! I cannot help this kind of behaviour of mine and I don't know if anyone could ever understand.
Gatchaman is also more realistic to me, like others have already said, and as a person who loves melodrama myself, I find it more appealing, especially when it reaches the end of its third series. When there's war involved, and its consequent circumstances, I don't like to see things like Zark and pointless dialogue that divert the attention from the real emotions that could have been felt. There was humour in Gatchaman but only at the right moment. In Gatchaman, the characters were human ... they did mistakes and they learned from them and, many a time they admitted their fault; they sometimes reacted impulsively like adoloscents, and even adults, are expected to do if they met certain obstacles; they didn't hide their anger or their conflicts just to seem right; and the team work was great.
But, as I said, I may be biased by the fact stated at the beginning of my post. I do respect BOTP, though, and the efforts of everyone concerned in its production. Their talent couldn't, and shouldn't, be overrided.
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Posted by SJ_SwanJun on 24-04-2010 at 18:03:
Mads ... totally with you on the BotP thing. I love that series so much more than the original.
I find I can connect with Mark and his team so much more than I can with Ken. Heck, I can even tolerate Zark to some degree. I don't like him much, but those extra little glimpses he gives you on each character deepens my connection to each of them.
Nostalga for me is probably a huge factor in it. I spent much of my early primary school years playing G-Force in the schoolyard with my friends. When I see BotP, it does take me back to those carefree years.
The voice acting is beyond compare IMO. Casey Kasem took me to sleepy land many times ... I was in love with him when I was a wee lass, and would actually squeal whenever I heard his voice on other shows!
I respect Gatchaman, most definitely, and do enjoy it a lot, but I can't seem to connect with the characters like I can with Battle.
Both are great shows -- awesome shows .. but I find BotP to be my hands down favourite.
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Posted by amethyst on 24-04-2010 at 21:15:
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SJ, that's quite well said! If we went on simply merits of the actual stories or animation, the original wins hands down. But I am a character person, and I get attached to those characters. Yes, the originals are more realistic characters, but I'm still getting to know those characters. I'm not attached to them as I am the ones from BotP.
That being said, I will admit that I do not particularly like Mark as a character, perhaps because in the small little "Pleasantville" that I grew up in and still live, I've seen too many people treated as "Perfect" so that archetype just annoys me. I prefer Ken over Mark, but I'll take Jason first and then Joe over any of them.
From the first series the only version that completely fell flat for me was GoS, I couldn't get into the characters at all. Probably because the voice acting feel flat either from script or direction or acting, I don't know which.
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Posted by AllentownDarkWater on 24-04-2010 at 21:31:
Not to **** on anybody's childhood memories or anything, but I have to be honest here. Back when I discovered G-Force in 1995. Me and my younger brother thought it was stupid, and I recall we also made fun of it sometimes too (maybe it's because I wasn't the major anime fan I am today back then). And I had heard about that before BOTP or Gatchaman. I don't remember what year it was I discovered BOTP's existence off the top of my head. It was either 2002 or 2004, but I didn't see an episode of BOTP until 2004 or 2005. This was 4 or 5 years after my anime fascination had begun, and The Anime Network had a few BOTP episodes on their on demand cable service, and I watched the first episode, and I just could not get into it at all. I also watched it, because I read that Peter Fernandez, best known as the voice of Speed Racer had done voices in it, and I wanted to hear who he played, but I don't recall ever finding out. I never became the hardcore Gatchaman fan that I am now until Tatsunoko vs. Capcom was released. Then I started watching ADV Films' re-dubbing of it and really enjoyed it, and I finally became a fan. And I STILL haven't seen all the episodes yet.
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Posted by amethyst on 24-04-2010 at 21:39:
Hey, know worries. Yes, we are all protective of our favorites, but your points are just as valid as ours.
Though, I don't think Peter Fernandez (never heard of him) did anything on BotP. Is it possible he did something of GoS?
There people out there that prefer the OAVs or Comic book renditions, so why not the video game?
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Posted by green on 25-04-2010 at 00:16:
You know, here's another thought to throw into this pot...
Which version of Gatchaman are we talking? The subbed or the ADV dubbed?
The dubbed version was also messed with. Nowhere near to the extent of BotP, but there are still inconsistancies...
I personally go for the subbed over the dubbed as I think the VA were better... If your experience with Gatchaman is only the dubbed version then I can see why it would be harder to connect to the characters...
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Exaggeration misleads the credulous and offends the perceptive. ~Eliza Cook
Posted by Madilayn on 25-04-2010 at 00:20:
I've watched some subbed episodes - but mostly watch the dubs.
The main reason is that I can't just sit and watch - I need to be doing something with my hands (usualy embroidery) and I also find that if I have to read subtitles, I can loose the visual action.
And yes - before you ask - going to the movies for me can be a trial. I usually end up sitting on my hands...
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"When I'm old, I don't want them to say of me, "She's so charming." I want them to say, "Be careful, I think she's armed." -G. Stoddart
Posted by green on 25-04-2010 at 00:30:
Subtitles are a trial for most people, Maddy. I get away with it because I can follow about 20% of the language on my own - enough to skip the subs like 'I understand' or 'I agree' - or my favourite 'So, do you think it's Galactor?'...
If we take the original Japanese version out of the equation completely, then I prefer the VA of BotP over the dub. Jason's scream of 'Lucy' as she plumments from the building is by far the most heart breaking thing I've heard in an anime...
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Exaggeration misleads the credulous and offends the perceptive. ~Eliza Cook
Posted by Transmute Jun on 25-04-2010 at 01:06:
I'm with Maddy. I prefer dubs, because I find if I'm reading the subs, then I'm missing a lot of the action on the screen.
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Posted by Madilayn on 25-04-2010 at 01:09:
A lot of people say that they find Ronnie Schell's voice too whiny for Jason - but he is a talented actor and just gets such emotion in there.
I think it suits Jason's brand of attitude - IMHO - when it comes to making snarky comments sound snarky, nobody does it better than Jason.
There are also times when there is that absolute menace in his voice - and you just know that this is NOT a person you want to cross.
I've always had the impression (and it comes across in a couple of my fics) that the Spectrans know that Mark may just let them go - or take them prisoner. Jason on the other hand, is a more fatal encounter.
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"When I'm old, I don't want them to say of me, "She's so charming." I want them to say, "Be careful, I think she's armed." -G. Stoddart
Posted by green on 25-04-2010 at 01:13:
Ah - the reason why I like Gatchaman!
Ken and Joe are both fatal encounters.... In fact, you can say the same about all the team.
It was never logical to me that Mark would let them go - that only gives Spectra back their troops to unleash them again...
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Exaggeration misleads the credulous and offends the perceptive. ~Eliza Cook
Posted by Transmute Jun on 25-04-2010 at 01:44:
I agree, Green. In fact, I explore that very idea in a fic I'm working on right now. How can the Federation possibly expect to win if they don't kill off the enemy, yet the enemy isn't afraid to kill them? They're fighting for a stalemate, not a win.
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Posted by amethyst on 25-04-2010 at 01:57:
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I never made this connection as a kid, I just loved Jason. But looking back I remember watching reruns of Gomer Pyle and the two characters that I liked where Schell's character and the tall corporal.
And I agree with you and TJ completely on the subs. I do love watching them and do watch them to know what was supposed to be said, but to rewatch, I can't do it. I'm always doing something if I have the TV on: Dishes, working on the computer, sewing, cross stitch, and embroidery. -- Maddy, I have a quilt project for you. I'll PM you with the details later tonight or tomorrow.
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