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Posted by Berg Katse on 20-07-2004 at 22:27:
Interesting Stats...
Flipping around on the TV today, while waiting for my eyes to readjust after being dilated by the opthalmologist, I heard some interesting statistics on a show on PBS. It may have been the McLaughlin Group (however the hell you spell it), but I couldn't see, so I'm just taking a guess.
Turns out that 25% of all criminals in the world are incarcerated in the US. They have a population of over 2.1 million inmates. The question presented, of course, is why, considering the US definitely does not have the largest population in the world.
One of the panellists said that it has nothing to do with the lack of gun laws and controls, and everything to do with ethnicity. However, he failed to back up his conclusion with any factual statements. Interracial violence is actually quite rare--95% of all crimes against black people are perpetrated by black people, and in other ethnic groups, the percentage is about the same, never dipping below 90%. So if people of certain ethnicities are only attacking those of the same ethnicity, how is ethnicity or ethnic tension the cause of all this violence?
And if it were true that ethnic tension is the cause of the crimes, wouldn't places with larger populations constitute the largest number of inmates? The US is only third on the list of most populous countries, and is the only Western country in the top ten (for population, it goes: China, India, US, Indonesia, Brazil, Pakistan, Russia, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Japan). It could be stated that the US is the only country with great ethnic diversity among its population, but many of the countries listed are well known for the degree of violence (particularly between different classes/castes and religions).
So is there truly a violence problem in the US? One could say that the US simply has a better justice system, with more penitentiaries, and is much less corrupt than some of the other countries. But on the other hand, the penalties for criminals in these countries is severe--executions by firing squad and stonings still occur in at least four of the countries listed. Is fear of the punishment keeping the one billion plus populations of China and India out of trouble, or is it the difficulty of obtaining weapons, or something more fundamental--are the people of these countries more concerned with surviving day to day life that they simply don't have the "luxury" to participate in criminal activity?
Hmm....
Katse
Posted by meridianday on 21-07-2004 at 07:18:
Very quick and flippy answer - I think the US has more money than most of those other nations to build prisons with.
This is interesting reading too, although I haven't had time to do more than scan it. It gives prison populations and rates of prison inmates per 1000 citizens for hundreds of countries.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/r188.pdf
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Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny." Posted by Cep on 21-07-2004 at 07:52:
Yes MD has hit it on the nose, you simply have more money in your governments yearly budget to spend on such things.
I guess in places like China with huge populations they just hang them instead.
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Posted by imaqtz on 21-07-2004 at 16:04:
You know, when England had this very same problem two hundred years back, they shipped the convicts to Australia...
Shame we have our prisons and detention centres full at the moment, mostly from refugees who didnt even commit a crime other than to ask for asylum here!@
Dont you just love the justice system?
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Posted by Elvin Ruler on 22-07-2004 at 14:00:
Eh, we just like building prisons and sticking people in 'em. It's fun. 
Maybe we should start sending them to Australia. That way we don't have to feed them.
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Posted by Buffy on 22-07-2004 at 14:25:
Or we could do like Canada and spray them down with a hose and throw them naked in the snow. Whoohoo!
hehehee!
I dunno, there's hundreds of variables to consider as to 'why', and it would depend on your personal philosophy about the US compared to the country of your choice whether any one of those variables is a 'good' thing or a 'bad' thing.
Is getting your hand cut off for robbery a good thing or a bad thing? If it acts as a deterrant (good), does that make it any less barbaric (bad)? Are more lenient punishments for the same crime automatically more flawed because they don't deter the more hardcore criminals (good/bad)?
There's truth to the racial issue. I've experienced it first hand. But I am inclined to agree with the idea that race is not the reason the majority of inmates are minorities. People tend to take the easier path if given the choice. It's easier to sell crack on the street and make 100 thou or more in a year than it is to go to a poorly funded school with gang war for 12 years to get a job at McDonalds. What would look better to you as a young kid with few visible prospects?
I'd say education vs. lack of education starting in the home, onward is more of an issue than race alone.
Agh...there are so many causes even beyond that. To me this topic is too complex as stated to put into a logical debate.
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"Spider sense....tingling."
Posted by imaqtz on 23-07-2004 at 17:08:
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Try telling that to Martha Stewart!
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Posted by Buffy on 23-07-2004 at 17:23:
Hey hey....Martha is a TV Goddess....
And she looks GREAT in prison-greys.
(hmmm....veiled commentary on 'edu-vison/tele-cation' replacing parental education? Snort snirk)
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Posted by imaqtz on 23-07-2004 at 17:28:
LOL!!!!
Im sure shell come up with marvellous ways to enhance the graffited walls, and meagre cell surroundings to perfectly contrast and blend with her prison garb..
YOu gotta envy her cellmate..
giggles!
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Shoot first..ask questions later!
Posted by Tengu on 23-07-2004 at 18:36:
Id say its lees to do with race than money. And status.
Money=status in the US, over here the footballer wont marry the duchess however much more money hes got than her.
And of course for some its the only way to get further education/healthcare...in extreeme cases it can mean the difference between life and death.
And of course there are always those who want the attention of the liberals. (though many ex cons I have met say they are one of the major disadvantages of life inside, that and the queing.)
But the main thing is that the US is a crime culture, it is encouraged. that and poor family life. (the difference between the US and China, say.) Its like the good old days in the USSR...there is no stigma attached to having been inside.
and lastly there is so much revenue to be made from crime..the biggest crimminals are the media.
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Posted by CricketBeautiful on 23-07-2004 at 18:44:
I object to "no stigma attached to having been inside". Some sub-cultures here may be different, but the majority keep our noses clean.
One of the big probs with wanting to reform is the stigma attached.
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Between stimulus and response there is a space.
In that space is our power to choose our response.
In our response lies our growth and our freedom.
- Viktor E. Frankl
Posted by Lolabella on 23-07-2004 at 18:54:
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Yes! And the person who receives her Secret Santa gift...
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Posted by CricketBeautiful on 23-07-2004 at 21:00:
OMG
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Between stimulus and response there is a space.
In that space is our power to choose our response.
In our response lies our growth and our freedom.
- Viktor E. Frankl
Posted by Cep on 23-07-2004 at 23:50:
LOL I Soooo thought they were pantie liners!!! ahahahaha 
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Posted by meridianday on 25-07-2004 at 18:36:
So, um, what are they? 
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Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny." Posted by CricketBeautiful on 25-07-2004 at 19:26:
from the size, blader control products
__________________
Between stimulus and response there is a space.
In that space is our power to choose our response.
In our response lies our growth and our freedom.
- Viktor E. Frankl
Posted by meridianday on 25-07-2004 at 20:07:
My first, innocent, thought was that they were white mule slippers or something, and only the frilly edges and depth of padding made me think otherwise.
Those little snowmen's noses would certainly make them interesting to wear as a hygiene item 
...edit...
Oh my god!
I was half right
... 2nd edit ...
Who'd have thought these things could be so controvertial? Just look down the comments left by visitors.
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Mallanox : "My mother was Irish and my father was an alien. I was an only child and I dress funny."
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