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--- "God Phoenix" translation (http://www.gatchamania.net/threadid.php?threadid=2889)
Posted by Swan Song on 11-03-2010 at 04:16:
"God Phoenix" translation
Here's something I've been curious about concerning the God Phoenix:
Does anyone know if the word "God" has the same connotation in Japanese as it does in English, or would the word "Spirit" be a more accurate translation?
The reason I ask is because in the DVD from the movie "Spirited Away," there are two versions of the translation from Japanese to English: the original subs and then the final spoken script. I noticed that the word "spirit" was spoken whenever the word "god" came up in the subs. (It could be that the Pixar screenwriters felt that "spirit" was more palatable to Western audiences...)
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Swan Song
Posted by green on 11-03-2010 at 04:45:
The GodPhoenix is just a name. You can hear them say it as is without a translation needed. No doubt the original person that came up with the name knew what it meant, but it was probably lost on many of the Japanese audience at the time.
The difference between using the words 'spirit' and 'god' is the same as deity and god (small g). I think you are correct in your thought that the screenwriters felt that 'spirit' was more palatable. In the Western world, usually it is considered that there is only one God, and the use of the word to describe any other deity could be offensive to a large number of people.
As for your question about the connotation of the word 'God' in Japanese, that's a harder one to answer. In another thread I mentioned the Japanese belief system. 90% of the general population will say they're Christian. 90% will say they're Buddhists. 90% will say they're Shinotists...
It's not that they have less faith than Christians, it's just that they look at faith differently. They can, and do, believe in God. But they also believe in Buddha's teachings as well as observing the native religion of Shinotism (which has so many gods I've lost count - I think it's about 108 ). Somehow, they just manage to make it all fit.
Not an answer, really, is it?
If it helps, the Japanese word for 'god' is kami. You say 'kami-sama' for God - as well for all the others, just with their individual names in front....
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Posted by Swan Song on 11-03-2010 at 20:30:
Hi Green,
That actually explains a lot, thank you so much for responding and spelling it all out. Shintoism with their kami especially sounds very interesting. After looking it up on Japan-guide.com, I found the following statement: "'Kami are sacred spirits which take the form of things and concepts important to life, such as wind, rain, mountains, trees, rivers and fertility. Humans become kami after they die." I get the sense that you are right, that "gods" with the small "g" may be a closer translation than "spirits".
I also found this site that talks more about the Shinto deities, as well as the myth of the Japanese phoenix.
http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/shinto-deities.html
Hope I'm not getting overanalytical about this--I just find it interesting to discover where storycrafters are coming from conceptually.
PS I apologize for the double post--still getting used to how threads work...
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Swan Song
Posted by UnpublishedWriter on 12-03-2010 at 03:31:
And maybe 'GodPhoenix' just sounded cool.
You never know. Really.
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Benefits, not features; benefits, not features
Posted by amethyst on 12-03-2010 at 04:30:
It has been way to long since my theological studies (not that I paid much attention to them beyond cultural/literary references), and seems way to late to be this damn early, and I think I need more wine for my brain to even reboot into this conversation because I know that there are multiple symbol connotations that we haven't begun to grasp here and my brain isn't functioning well enough to tease them out.
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Perspective Alters Reality
Posted by gatchamarie on 12-03-2010 at 12:44:
I think that "God" in God Phoenix is simply another word for "Spirit" as the definition of a phoenix in ancient mythology (also as per Wikipedia) is that it is a mythical sacred firebird that is a fire spirit.
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Posted by Transmute Jun on 12-03-2010 at 14:51:
And then there's the explanation in Gatchaman abridged. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZnyjHQC9f8
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Posted by UnpublishedWriter on 12-03-2010 at 22:33:
Well, the intended Japanese audience would have had their own understanding of it. Whether they would have read great significance into it is another matter.
Thing is, they do say "God Phoenix" in the original. Not "kami" or "ho'o" in any combination. I suppose, to them, "God Phoenix" sounded better. (So does "Bird Go" and "Bird Run". And I'm pretty sure "Egobossler" in the original pronunciation sounds way cooler, too.)
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Benefits, not features; benefits, not features
Posted by Swan Song on 13-03-2010 at 09:18:
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This is hilarious--thanks for the link!
Great points everyone--have to admit, "God Phoenix" sounds pretty impressive.
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Swan Song
Posted by MrVampire on 13-03-2010 at 12:09:
On the note of Translations, here's something I found about alternative titles in other countries.
Gatchaman alternate titles:
Battle of the Planets
Batalha dos Planetas (Portuguese)
Comando G (Spanish)
Equipo Cientifico Ninja Gatchaman (Spanish)
Fuerza G (Spanish)
G-Force
G-Force: Defensores do Espaço (Portuguese)
G-Force: Guardians of Space
Kagaku Ninja-Tai Gatchaman (Japanese)
La Bataille des planètes (French)
La Batalla de los Planetas (Spanish)
La battaglia dei pianeti (Italian)
Science Ninja Team Gatchaman
Strijd der Planeten (Dutch)
Wojna Planet (Polish)
Załoga G (Polish)
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Space Cats!
I'll write something else entertaining here eventually...
Posted by Swan Song on 13-03-2010 at 13:41:
Cool, I didn't realize the show has been translated into so many languages. Looking at the Portuguese, French, Spanish and Italian versions of BotP, am I correct in assuming that they took Sandy Frank's BotP and translated the English version into their respective languages and cultures? Amethyst could really have some fun if her Joe gets trapped into these alternate realities...
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Swan Song
Posted by gatchamarie on 13-03-2010 at 15:20:
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I can only answer with regard to the Italian version here, which I've been able to watch during my childhood. During the 1980's (or at least that's the period during which I had started watching the series) "La Battaglia dei Pianeti" had been introduced as a direct translation from Sandy Frank's BOTP with images, episodes and all. But soon after they continued with the same name of "La Battaglia dei Pianeti" (that is "Battle of the Planets") but airing the full original Gatch II and Gatch F series one after the other instead. Then Gatchaman was aired again from the very beginning and so on. They also retained the same Italian theme song all along with Zark and all, even if now we were talking about the real Gatchaman! The Team members were called Ken, Joe, Pretty Jane, Jimpy and Ryu ... you're laughing at "Pretty Jane" aren't you ... don't worry cause I always cannot understand exactly why they called Jun as such - not even "Principessa", at least, instead of "Princess"! And in Gatch F, Egobossler called the SNT as the "G Force"! A bit of a garble isn't it! But, all in all, in Italy it was pure Gatch at the end, apart from the confusion in the names and title!
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To be or not to be a gatchamaniac - that's the dilemma!
Posted by tatsunokofan on 13-03-2010 at 17:14:
Hi all!
And don't forget that Italy also added in episodes of Gatchaman that were not part of the BotP run. This came about because the Italian production company had aquired the Italian rights for Gatchaman at roughly the same time Sandy Frank got the worldwide rights for Gatchaman, which included Italy. Adding in the missing episodes was apparently part of the compromise reached between the two companies. The Italian dub of episode #'s 103 and 105 of the series are included as bonus material on the last volume of the Italian BotP DVD release.
In pretty much every non-Asian country, it was a straight translation of BotP that aired there. In Asia, it depended on which country you were in as to whether you got Gatchaman or BotP. Places like Taiwan and South Korea got Gatchaman, while the Phillipines, Malaysia, and Bangladesh got BotP. It appears that Hong Kong had both series at one time or another.
By the way, as a point of clarification, Spain had BotP as La Batalla de los Planetas, though it was called Comando G the same way people here referred to Battle of the Planets as G-Force (Not realizing that G-Force was a separate series). It is in Mexico that the Spanish title Fuerza G comes from. If you mention Fuerza G in Spain, they won't know what you're talking about, just as they wouldn't recognize Comando G in Mexico.
The differences in the Spanish dubs actually caused a small problem when the BotP DVDs were being released in Spain. Sandy Frank supplied the video distributor the Mexican Spanish dub, not the Spain dub. The distributor instantly recognized the differences between the Spanish and Mexican accents, and Sandy Frank's people had to scramble to locate the proper dub for them to use. It all worked out in the end, and the DVDs were released on schedule, but it was a bit of a rush for a little while there.
James
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