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--- The RI issue (http://www.gatchamania.net/threadid.php?threadid=2700)
Posted by amyltrer on 08-10-2009 at 20:01:
The RI issue
A nasty subject (and character) that has been talked (and cursed) in the past.
After re-watching the key RI episodes I personally (judging from a good guy POV) couldn't find a single reason of why Kentaro Washio should be hated.
Because he left his family when he was most needed. Because he didn't looked after his son and wife. Because he was such a jerk with Ken and pounded with fists instead of giving him a warm fatherly cuddle. RI dis-likers will find more reasons.
What I saw in those episodes was a man who HAD TO leave his family for a greater things. Protecting the world (and said family included) from a growing terrorist organisation was one of them.
There were some opinions that he never cared for his son and wife, that they were a burden to him or just that he wanted freedom.
The original series's plot motivates his actions. Because of his position in the ISO Ken and Sayuri would have becomed living targets to Gallactor. A cover identity couldn't last too long given the Syndicate's extensive spies network. Since he were to be all the time in missions, there were no one to protect them. (Gallactors proved countless time that they would do anyhing to destroy their enemis and their families) He couldn't have done the job alone by himself. Hiring ISO gurads to keep them safe? Ineffective giving Gallactor resources. The only option left was to ward them to a ISO military base. And who would want family to live in such isolation? Eh, with Katse's viciousness, they wouldn't be safe in a titanium bunker.
Now, there is that Ken's dream where he was a child and his father nearly drowned him as he was teaching him to swim. That gives Kentaro a bad father image.
But still, Ken seem to remember very fondly of him.. Which means he couldn't have been such a bad parent. And those memories with him playing with toddler Ken?
Sadly there aren't any more details about Ken's childhood and there was almost nothing about Kentaro's relation with his wife. I wish the makers have delved more into this.
Sure some might say he still could look after Ken after Sayuri's death, especialy that kid was put by Nambu into special training and was living into Nambu's secluded house. But there's the psychological issue. Having his father suddenly rise from the dead and being told about the farse he lived into could have ruined Ken's mind at that age. He had problems with understanding his father's choices older.
I wonder if Nambu ever asked for Kentaro's permission when he did. Did Kentaro knew what role his son would play in the future war? Did he agree? I couldn't tell.
Did he truly loved his son? I think his reaction to seeing Ken's plane going free fall into the clough was explanatory enough. He saved him and took care of him. And what of his emotional outburst? It was really touching. So Kentaro loves Ken but he has trouble expressing his feelings. Washio Jr. seem to have inherited this trait. 
As for that scene where Senior Washio gave a fisty welcome to his son? Oh come on! The brat fully deserved it. As the head of the first line defense against Gallactor he can't act so irresponsable! That Ken abandoned his team to follow RI lead to the victory in that episode was sheer luck!
Aaaaaaand, he was Gatchaman ! Ninja Gatchaman. How is he supposed to protect the planet from Katse when an old man smacks him down?! D'oh, go train flyboy!
And the supreme sacrifice Kantaro did in order to save the world and his son's face. For it was mostly Ken's fault things reached that point! Kentaro chose to pilot himself the rocket when he could let Ken do it or persuade Oniish or Masaki to do the job! That's a strong sense of duty!!!
I couldn't find any hint in the series to indicate Kentaro Washio was a misogynist, self-seeker carieerist, or a traitor. He was a tough man with a tough job, oftenly pulling KNTG team's ass out of fire.
His job didn't give him fame or wealth. The Red Impulse team seemt known little enough so Gallactor can't track them down. None of them seem to have a life outside their duty! There was no question about thier devotion to the ISO cause!
I find ironically that Kentaro Washio is one of the most detested character in the entire Gatch universe, when he was himself a victim. Unlike the usual episodic to-be-dead-at-the-end characters he just lasted longer.
I understand Ken's frustration of not getting affection from his distant parent (kid was probably starving for it) and instead of it being beaten and rejected. So? He does the same with Jun.
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It is the tiny spark of humanity that adds blaze to a villain
Posted by amyltrer on 08-10-2009 at 20:06:
In honor of Red Impulse
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It is the tiny spark of humanity that adds blaze to a villain
Posted by tatsunokofan on 08-10-2009 at 21:20:
Hi all!
Thank you!
Despite what so many of the Red Impulse haters out there like to think, there really are those of us who don't have a problem with the character. Was he perfect? No, but he also wasn't the Devil incarnate that they like to make him out to be. I'm glad to see someone remind people of this.
Again, thank you!
James
Posted by amethyst on 08-10-2009 at 22:42:
Great argument Amy!
I am neither a fan of RI nor someone who hates. Were he real I'd probably be apathetic of him.
However a few things get forgotten when discussing.
1. He was created at a time when physical discipline was tolerated, maybe not liked by all, definitely illegal if done to the point of leaving marks or scars, but largely ignored except for extreme cases.
2. Military personnel have to make the decision that he almost everyday. Maybe not to the extreme that he did, but it happens. Depending on the circumstances some only get to see their families a few weeks out of the year, and some don't see them for years. However, I will concede that despite fanon implications, the only military units that the ISO appears to have are the RI squad and the SNT/KNT; UN forces are the primary military units (I wonder if that says something about the perceived strength of the UN during Japan at that time -- today the UN still does not have it's own force but instead draws upon the forces of member nations) and that it appears to be more inference than purely stated that RI is military, we know he was Nambu's friend and test-pilot or it is a carry-over from BotP and Colonel Cronus.
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Perspective Alters Reality
Posted by UnpublishedWriter on 08-10-2009 at 22:55:
I don't have the episodes exactly to hand, but I recall that during the 'Blue Hawk' episode, Ken talks to Nambu about Red Impulse, then mentions his father. The doctor tells him that his father was a famous pilot, and his test pilot. I believe that it was also stated when Nambu tells the team about Red Impulse. After RI dies, Nambu says that the Earth was saved at the cost of his friend's life.
A lot of characters didn't get developed as they should have. Of course, we should remember that the series was intended for children, so there would not be a lot of opportunity for character development.
Perhaps some people aren't thrilled with the way RI and Nambu keep up the deception, long after the initial need for it has vanished. Ken's in the SNT, and has a secret identity of his own.
(I tried to write a couple of fics about Kentaro Washio. Not too successful. I do broken and/or peculiar much better, as any reader of my Berg Katse stories can attest.)
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Benefits, not features; benefits, not features
Posted by lborgia88 on 09-10-2009 at 00:26:
Kudos, Amy, for taking a strong and passionate stance on a character who has always been, it seems, controversial.
You’re right to point out that he did many things that evince courage, devotion to duty, and willingness to make sacrifices for his family’s safety and for the good of the world.
So why don’t I like him then…
In essence, I think it’s because I really feel for Ken, and I really like Ken. He’s also the title character of the show and is in every episode, so I don’t think it’s so unusual that I’m (admittedly) biased in his favor. Somehow, it often seems to me that the writers were a tad heavy-handed in how they went about introducing, and using, the character of Red Impulse –ie. whenever he’s around, it seems that Ken and/or the KNT are made to look bad in some way.
When the Science Ninjas (well, Joe really) use up all their missiles in episode 5, it’s the RI Team that shows up to save the day (and the KNT).
In a critical moment in the fight with the ant mecha in episode 10, the KNT is having trouble with their sun weapon, but RI is there, telling Ken to retreat and “Leave this to Red Impulse!â€
In episode 11, Dr. Nambu learns that the Blue Hawk has been high-jacked by Galactor, and it’s Red Impulse who gets sent in to save the day, and Ken ends up looking like a dupe because Dr. Nambu doesn’t tell him what’s really going on –he just sends in Red Impulse.
In episodes 40 and 44, Ken is written to be all sulky, self-pitying and petulant -and again it’s Red Impulse who must swoop in and intervene to straighten him out –a role that could have been played by Dr. Nambu or Joe. Or, Ken could have been allowed to work through his problems himself and realize what he had to do.
And then there’s the whole issue of Ken being kept in the dark about the fact that his father is alive. Yes, I know that Red Impulse had to go deep undercover on an important mission, and that it was for his wife and son’s safety that his death was faked. But, it hurts me to see Ken being a dupe –in essence, being deceived- even if it might be for his own good (and it’s debatable if it would have jeopardized RI’s role in Hontwahl if Ken, once he’d become Gatchaman, had been told who RI really was).
Again, my sympathies are much more with Ken and the other Ninjas. When they’re made to look foolish or inept for no other reason, seemingly, than to make another character shine, I will tend to find that other character annoying. Just like I found it annoying that the four older Ninjas were written to be a bit stupid in episode 16 so that Jinpei could shine, and save the day.
I don’t loathe Red Impulse, or think he’s evil, but I do think the writers could have done a better job with how they worked him into episodes and the role that he played in the episodes that were meant to create and build on the whole story arc that culminated in the V-2 plan episodes. I think his character could have been handled in ways that would have annoyed me less. If they'd tried less to present him as the smug, all-knowing hero and more as a man with loss and tragedy in his past struggling to find a way to balance duty with the desire to have a relationship with his son, I would like him better, I think.
As for the rough treatment that Ken receives from him, in the present and as a swimming toddler in that flashback, I can understand that many might think that a small boy might benefit from actions intended to “toughen him up,†and I can understand that Ken is a soldier and fighting to save the world and that sometimes that calls for harsh methods and blunt treatment, but I don’t enjoy watching it. Again, I like Ken, so if someone is hitting him in a way that leaves him completely beaten and humiliated (even if I can understand that the situation might demand it) then I’m going to find myself not liking that person very much! Maybe that's unfair to RI, but that's how it affects me.
I’m glad you expressed your opinion, Amy. I always enjoy debate and exchange of ideas, as long as we all remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and creative interpretations.
Posted by Ebonyswanne on 09-10-2009 at 00:27:
In those times it was accepted to keep things like that secret. (In adoption, how many people found out when they're adults that they were adopted. LOTS. Especially ones that took place from the 1900's through to the 1970's. Sealed birth records etc, just love a child lots and it will alright they won't need to know or want to know anything about their birth... How wrong was that ideal. Extremely wrong as it has been proven now.) Its an example of the mindset. I know from talking to my 90yr old neighbour she has different ideas on some things than I do because of the age she grew up in.
So to a degree I put it down to the times and the mindset people had on the truth in relationships.
What it does highlight is how our views on these things have changed dramatically over time.
There were other ways he could have protected them and not lied them, but then in Gatchaman they would have lost a whole storyline and 'mystery'!
Besides that, I don't might people looking at the different angles of a character and reasoning his actions. Good or bad.
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Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
Posted by SJ_SwanJun on 09-10-2009 at 00:44:
:smiles:
Personally ... I love Colonel Cronus and his team... I always have! That's the whole reason I enjoyed the "Mark" comic so much.
I love reading them, and I sure as shit love writing them. Most of you know I love my Rangers muchly.... Hang on. Were they actually known as Rangers, or did I just randomly call them that???
I have watched Gatchaman, but never with the passion and intensity I do BotP, so I can't really say I love or hate RI.
I certainly didn't get negative vibes from him when I did watch Gatch. I saw him as a man who had no other choice -- and better that he leave to save those he loves than hang around and see them in peril.
I find the red pilot a fascinating character to explore...
I can, however, see why people would dislike him ... Tough love isn't easy to stomach.
But thank you for your insight... much appreciated!!
SJ
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Sighhh
Why do men snore when lying on their backs?
Because their balls fall over their butt holes and they vapour lock.
Posted by Transmute Jun on 09-10-2009 at 00:55:
Well, I know Amy started this thread because she finished reading my recent RI-based trilogy. I'm not going to 'defend' myself, but I think everyone knows that I detest the character. IMHO, he didn't add anything useful or positive to the plot, and whenever he showed up Ken was reduced to a whiny, incompetent brat. The rest of the time Gatchaman was a hero, but as LB pointed out, he had to be demeaned to make RI a hero in certain episodes. I often find him to be a 'villain in hero's clothing', except that they're trying to dupe the audience into thinking this way as well. Kind of like Zark... j/k!
I'm not going to say that RI was a traitor for certain... but the point of my recent trilogy was to show that it could be completely within canon to make him so. I also agree that it's possible to make RI a hero within canon, which is the more accepted view.
Clearly no one is going to change anyone's view, but I think my fics stand for themselves. Of course, all of this is OPINION, so it doesn't really matter, does it? 
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Posted by amyltrer on 09-10-2009 at 08:25:
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Which I liked!! You wonderfully managed to depict him as a villain while keeping the story into the Gatch 1's cannon. The background and the story you've created around your RI character was completely verosimile and it fits the events in Gact 1 perfectly without dramatically distorting the shoow character's personality or make the plot's flow inchoerent. You described a very plausible motivation for RI's choices and found new meanings behind his actions, so that the events in the show and your story interwine convincingly! I find that brilliant at a writer!
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Oh, but he did! He played a major role in Ken's development as a character. Without him the show makers would not offered us insights of Ken's childhood. And saved the team in various occasions. That had to be useful useful to the plot.
As for belittling Ken's character in order to make RI shine, I understand. Maybe the makers did this to make RI stand out more and to add the character more importance. Or to give some warts to Gatchaman. If he was to be to perfect all the time it would become boring after a while. After all Ken was not the perfect leader. He made mistakes even when RI was not around! A lot of them.
And in almost every episode some minor characters were made to look dumb so Ken and his team can be in the limelight! Yes he's the main character, he have to shine but this is equally annoying and is one of the reasons the Eagle has all my antipathy. Not to mention the F series where he gets all the attention (good or bad) to himself!
But as in RI's case, it was the makers desgin, no point in blaming a character!
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TJ, the defensive tone of your post is completely unnecessary. I am not making an innuendo against your fics and there is nothing against you have to 'defend' yourself.
I made my review after I re-watched the RI episoded and judged solely upon the original cannon, excluding any fan presumptions or simpathies towards any character. I stated my own opinion, that I think RI doesn't deserves the general dislike (yours included) he 'enjoys'.
If you detest him (and others who might) , it is your option to do so, and I respect your opinion. And yes it matters. I personally think one has the right to believe what one wants and say it loud. So for me opinions do matter.
No one is trying to change no one's view. After all this is a free discution.
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It is the tiny spark of humanity that adds blaze to a villain
Posted by Firebird on 09-10-2009 at 10:03:
I think you raise some interesting points about RI Amy. I know in one of my series I started trying to explain his background in a sympathetic way have to say I did love Tj's story on him also.
I agree with Ebony, views change over time what is seen as the norm when this was originally made now to some of us seems outrageous or very unusual
I think it is always good to debate viewpoints of a character
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Like the Phoenix I rise from the fire. Beware all who try to tame me, you may get burned 
Posted by yul on 09-10-2009 at 16:07:
Undoubtedly, RI is a tragic character.
Actually, Ken and RI have the similar behavior model: if you devote your life to saving the planet, you must repudiate your own feelings. It`s a huge stress after all and it changes system of values with time. So,
Ken might repeat RI`s fate.
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Breathe in and breathe out
Posted by gatchamarie on 09-10-2009 at 17:36:
Amy, many thanks for raising this thread!
I'm not so much of an RI's fan for the same reasons that others in this thread described, especially the ones mentioned by LB who literally spoke my mind! (BTW, LB ... you and me just think the same!!!) On the other hand, I also feel some sympathy for this character, deeming his actions and choices being taken due to the hard circumstances! No one can ever really know how it must feel being a soldier at war without living the experience, moreover when having a key role in the salvation of humanity! Family is also important and sometimes one has to do what he doesn't want to do just for its own safety and good even if I reiterate that it's unfair!
Tough love is not the best option but sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind especially when trying to teach the harsh realities of life to your young ones! But as LB said, I didn't like seeing Ken take in all those blows, being mental or physical! Hoping not to annoy anyone, I can see myself in one of my childhood memories (so near to Ken's), my father being an expert of raising his kids with tough love ... he once literally obligated a six-year-old me to jump into a jellyfish infested sea just to teach me a lesson after the kid in me couldn't stop protesting the fact that he didn't want me to swim that day! And yes, I learnt the lesson as I immediately got out of the water with the speed of light but literally freaked out! I also didn't know my father until just a few years ago, after my mother died, the event bringing us closer! My father was always out working and we kids rarely saw him as he worked when we were asleep and was at home sleeping when we were at school or at home with mum suplicating us not to disturb his rest! I know that he worked a lot for our good, and I also tell him so as he nowadays explains his past situation and love for the family, but I also am aware that life is short and I so wanted to know my father better when I needed him as I grew up and not so late in my life! Though he was hard with us, I love my father just the way Ken did, his teachings impressed in my mind! Even in Gatch F, at the very end, Ken thought of his father when he was in difficulties and near death! That shows the bond that always existed between father and son ... a bond that never dies! Oh how I so understand Ken!
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To be or not to be a gatchamaniac - that's the dilemma!
Posted by Ebonyswanne on 09-10-2009 at 20:13:
It can be complex.
TJ rook a POV, thats all, and she did very well to see how a rightious man could have an underlying agenda thats not so good, and others can be blind to it.
I have to admit I've made Cronus a better man than he appears in the series and his reasons for keeping his identity a secret from Mark even more valid.Its not so easy to do. (Ghosts of the past Pt 2 is about Mark and Cronus.)
Edit; My dad used tough love a lot too, he was of that generation that felt we needed to "Toughen up" But then I understand his thinking, after he was a coal miner, and that kind of life is tough on a man and a family. I think at times he forgot we were girls! LOL Since he used a leather belt if we stepped out of line to far...then there was the trusty wooden spoon. Gatchamarie my dad would have done the same thing as your in that situation!
But in many ways my dad was a loving father, and good husband. He just didn't want us it sink the moment we ended up in a situation that needed us to be tougher, (I can be tough, but at times I think it more the way I was taught to put emotions aside and deal with it later, my fall outs happen up to months after a traumatic thing happens.) they didn't have personal development seminars and raising children books back then. He unfortunately learned about disiplining children from his dad...which from what I gather wasn't a good approach.
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Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.
Posted by lborgia88 on 10-10-2009 at 19:51:
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Interesting!
My Dad grew up on a farm, did a stint in the US Navy during the Korean War and then became a marine geologist specializing in the Arctic sea floor -he's a big believer in the virtues of hard work and fortitude. My sister and I were never allowed to be "princesses" -no, we were expected to get our hands dirty and to be tough. Even though I was the smallest, I was expected to keep up during the 20 km cross-country skiing treks through the woods that were my father's idea of a proper family activity in the winter. But he was never much of a disciplinarian (except occasionally to my brother when he was a teenager). I can't recall any spankings and I never got grounded, or ever had a curfew.
I'm trying to imagine the scene between Ken and RI in episode 40, if my Dad was doing RI's role. He wouldn't call Ken a "coward," or say "I'm a real man, not a spineless wimp like you," and he'd never hit him. But there wouldn't be any "warm fatherly cuddles" either. He'd say something to the effect that "the world is a hard and unfair place -that's how it is. Stop complaining, get back out there, and do the work that has to be done -and you'll be a better person for having done it." His personality is a lot more "New England farmer" than "drill-sergeant."
Posted by Springie on 10-10-2009 at 20:10:
I don't hate RI but I certainly don't love him, either. As a kid, I just ignored the fact that Cronus was there, because he confused my little 8 year old mind...was he a friend? Or was he Ken's father? At one point I thought I had just imagined Cronus saying he was Ken's father. I really didn't see the point of having Cronus in the show at all.
Anyway, as an adult, watching Gatch, I was horrified by the "tough love" he provided for Ken...even when Ken didn't know who he actually was!
What I don't understand is...after Ken was on the SNT, it didn't seem like the secret needed to still be kept from him. Why did they let the poor boy suffer for so long like that?
He was a trained ninja for goodness' sake, and placed in charge of a whole team of ninjas...so did they think that he would be in danger if he knew? I'd think he could take care of himself.
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Posted by tatsunokofan on 10-10-2009 at 23:24:
Hi all!
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I've been thinking a little about this lately, and I can think of one good reason why not to let Ken know that Red Impulse was his father. Given the way Ken acted whenever the subject of his father came up, what would he have done had he found out? He'd have taken off to be with Red Impulse, regardless of the damage his departure would do to the Science Ninja Team. While it's obvious that Red Impulse would like to have had Ken near him, the cost to the Ninja Team, and therefore to the world, would have been too great.
James
Posted by Springie on 10-10-2009 at 23:29:
You make a good point there, James! And Dr. Nambu knew Ken well enough to be able to predict how he would take the news. Although, it seemed as though Nambu regretted his decision to keep RI's secret from Ken later on in the series.
But I wonder if the newness of the idea would wear off after a while, and he'd be able to perform his duties as usual?
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Posted by tatsunokofan on 10-10-2009 at 23:38:
Hi all!
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Probably, but how long would "a while" be, and how many lives (Possibly including those of the rest of the Ninja Team) would have been lost in the process?
James
Posted by Springie on 10-10-2009 at 23:41:
You've got me there, James! 
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