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Posted by Guy on 30-04-2008 at 11:31:
Piracy
(This is a very games heavy article, but it applies to movies, music, software etc. equally. All prices quoted are in AUD - for reference an average retail price for newly launched first hand games - PS3 games are $80 - $120, Wii games are $80 - $100, 360 are $80 - $110, PC are $70 - $100)
If I can get it for free, why should I pay for it?
I'm not hurting anyone by downloading this.
They make enough money already, they don't need mine.
Everybody else does it.
I can't afford it/it costs too much.
The hardware costs too much, after paying for that I can't afford the (movie/game/software etc).
It's not worth my money, but I want it anyway.
THESE ARE NOT EXCUSES. THESE ARE LIES YOU TELL YOURSELF SO YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE YOU'RE THE BAD GUY.
If you love something, you support it, whether it be children, friends, lovers, family or entertainment industries. If you don't give these things your support, they deteriorate. Children without support are helpless, friends without your support grow distant. If you don't support your entertainment industry of choice, guess what? THEY STOP PRODUCING. THEY GO BANKRUPT. THEY MOVE ON TO OTHER THINGS.
I have seen too many gaming companies die because people refuse to pay for the stuff they make. Just recently Crytek announced that they may not be producing games exclusively for PC anymore because piracy of PC games is running rampant. It's the ONLY WAY they can survive. These are the people who developed Farcry and Crysis. The absolutely phenomenal CryENGINE. These people aren't making crap, they are making critically acclaimed games... but they're dying because people refuse to pay for their games. The president of their company presented research showing that console games (not nearly as troubled by piracy because it's tougher to pirate console games) of very similar nature to their games, were selling 4 to 5 times as many as their PC only games were selling.
And before you say 'but crysis isn't selling because it won't run on anyone's PC, lol' - Crysis is currently leading the charts... in pirated games. People CAN run it.
http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/870/870416p1.html
Another company of note that died due to piracy is the developers of SiN and SiN Episodes - Ritual Entertainment. They weren't making shit games either, but how quickly they went under because nobody would pay.
Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth, an awesome game with brilliant direction produced by another company taken down by piracy, Headfirst Productions.
Titan Quest Devs Iron Lore Entertainment were bankrupted swiftly, despite the fact that the game is once again, critically acclaimed.
http://www.megagames.com/news/html/pc/titanquestdevelopershutsdown.shtml
I could list companies all day and it wouldn't even begin to cover the damage done by piracy. I chose these because most of these were games that were critically acclaimed, beloved by fans, and had sequels planned. Pirates who were fans deprived themselves of the conclusion to these series because they refused to pay. In the case of Iron Lore, piracy hurt their sales even more because in order to bypass the piracy protection someone created a patch that made the game run poorly, the pirates who used this patch didn't understand that it was the patch making their game run poorly, and went around speading rumors that the game was buggy and shit.
Take a look at all the sovelware games that abound - developers have trouble justifying sinking money into something that's likely to fall infinitely short, so they pump out garbage, hoping for a quick $, hoping to catch the 'casual' gamers who don't know what they're forking their money out for, hoping to catch those too stupid to figure out how to pirate. Can you blame them?
And take a look at Bioshock of 2K Games. A game which was more a work of art than a game. It suffered from some of the most intense piracy protection software ever. The paying customer required an internet connection and was only allowed to install the game twice with the same key, if you wanted to install it again you would need to uninstall a previous installation.
Gamers begged and pleaded 2K games to change their decision about the piracy protection, the pirates were worried, the paying customers were upset because they felt they were being punished for something they didn't do. 2K stuck to their guns and were rewarded - released on the 21st August 07, by the 10th of September they had sold over 1.5 million copies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioShock#Sales
From memory (I didn't find any references in my 2 minutes of googling), that serious copy protection lasted a record(?) 8 days. After that 2K relaxed their copy protection by removing the 2 installs limit.
What has this taught developers? Fuck everyone over with the most hardcore protection you can, or you will fail. Brilliant games falling far short of their expected sales, brilliant companies going down hard, hundreds of extremely talented developers losing their jobs, and never being rewarded for their hard work. How can you justify piracy?
If that isn't enough to change your mind about pirating games, perhaps because you think you can't afford them, then I'll tell you about myself; I'm a checkout operator in a grocery store. I'm not full time, not part time, but casual. I'm lucky if I get 4 shifts a week. I live out of home, so I have to pay rent, bills, and for my food. I'm saving up to go into university next year. I don't exactly have cash coming out of my eyeballs, but despite that I've managed to collect OVER 300 LEGITIMATE games. PC, PS1, 2, 3, Wii, Gamecube, DS, PSP, etc. and I'm not buying trashy games either. I've got some real gems like Legend of Dragoon and Marvel Vs. Capcom.
How do I do it? I shop around. Often I buy games for less than they sell for on eBay, just by shopping around. On average I pay $20 - $30 (AUD) for a game, and only buy games on launch that I'm really hyped about. Even then I often save 30% on retail by just looking for the place with the best price, or by getting the best preorder deal. It's not hard, it doesn't take me a lot of time or effort.
It's easy to justify spending my money on these things too, because I can resell them all for around what I paid for them, sometimes more. I've gone through my collection a few times and taken out things I hated or will never play again and gotten rid of them on eBay and either broken even or made a small profit.
Can you do that with pirated games? Hell no. And if you get caught with them you get a hefty fine.
I know far too many people who pirate games, they sicken me, they confuse me. Always trying to justify themselves with all kinds of illogical or hypocritical statements.
If something isn't worth your money, it's not worth your time.
You are hurting someone by pirating that game.
The devs aren't already making enough money, they really do need yours.
You CAN afford it.
If you can afford a $1000 video card/console/whatever, you can easily afford a $30 game. If you can't why the hell are you buying the console in the first place?
How the hell is 'everyone else does it' even remotely an excuse? Just shut up and die already.
Whenever I see someone saying these things, I feel like smashing that person's face into the ground and screaming YOU ARE THE CANCER KILLING THE GAMING INDUSTRY. Or better yet, DIE MONSTER, YOU DON'T BELONG IN THIS WORLD.
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Posted by Fairlight on 30-04-2008 at 13:16:
I have mixed feelings about this issue. As someone who loves the Internet and computers I can see both sides of the problem.
Yes, developers deserve credit/compensation for well-written programs. I understand how difficult and time consuming software development can be, and the creativity it takes is impressive whether we're talking about games or word processors. For every frustrated computer user that tries in vain to accomplish a goal there is a programmer who comes up with a solution. That deserves reward and acknowledgment.
At the same time, I have a problem with the rampant greed of commercial industry including software development. Business today seems concerned with money and nothing more. Some worthy projects are never started because they aren't profitable. The concept of developing programs to help the world at large or add a bit of entertainment seems rare these days.
Most freeware from big companies, like adobe's flash player, have a marketing use.
I rely heavily on freeware. I have more respect for companies that make some of their software available for free than companies who want to gouge the consumer for every dime they possess. And in this Internet world where computer software is so sophisticated, how realistic is it to expect that any program can be completely protected? It's like the music industry--complete hypocrites. They want all kinds of radio time, songs put out on the airwaves across the world for anyone to hear yet cry when someone downloads it. You can't have it both ways. If it's free to listen to on a favorite station how can they complain when people make it free on their computers?
In my opinion, the entertainment and software industries need an overhaul in the way they do business. Compensation for excellent work is important, but another structure is needed to make sure that intellectual property isn't abused and that those who create it get their due. I'm not sure what that would be, but we need to rethink it in a non-capitalist way. Heck, I think the whole world could use a bit of that!
Just my 
Posted by Guy on 30-04-2008 at 14:12:
Freeware isn't illegally pirated software. Illegally pirated software is illegally pirated software.
I own my copy of windows, I could use a free OS but I chose this one (mostly because it has more games coded for it 
). I'm using a freeware browser though. For the added protection. I have no problem with freeware.
I have a huge problem with greedy companies like EA. They tried to get their hands on GTA 4 by doing a hostile takover on take two. Not impressed. I boycott EA games... although I boycotted them before that for other reasons, but it enforced my boycott.
But I flat out refuse to pirate ANYTHING. Even EA games. If it has a price on it, and I want it enough to pay it, I'll pay it. If not, I won't use it.
The structure necessary for keeping big evil companies in line is called; competition. No company should ever be able to have a monopoly on anything - EA is trying to get that over gaming.
Beyond that there's no viable structure that can be enforced.
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Posted by Fairlight on 30-04-2008 at 14:47:
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Well... if we let conventions guide us we may miss the unconventional solutions waiting to be developed.
If we think in certitudes we close ourselves to seeing anything else...
I'm sure there are other ways to handle the situation. They just have to be found. I try to stay open...
BTW, I wasn't saying that freeware is the same as pirating. I was pointing out the middle ground.
Posted by Metaliant on 30-04-2008 at 20:06:
I can see both sides of the problem here but my opioion is that if everybody get free music downloads of your favourite bands instead of buying it, then those artiists will have to stop making music because nobody will buy their music and therefore their business is finsihed.
The same thing goes with games and TV & films.
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Posted by Guy on 30-04-2008 at 22:17:
I forgot to address the free music thing.
It's not free on the radio. The radio plays what will draw the most listeners in order to get the most people to listen to their advertisments. Same goes for public TV.
You pay for your viewing/listening pleasure by enduring the advertisments and product placement.
This is why stations stick to specific kinds of music. They judge who will be listening and they choose their advertisments accordingly. A pop music station will play ads for things young people will want, classics stations play ads for the age range of their 'classic' pop music. And also why TV stations put certain things on at certain times - family shows at dinnertime, and food ads. Childrens shows before school and toy ads. Late at night, weird controversial shows, reruns etc. and escort service or dirty phone service ads.
Nothing in life is ever free.
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Posted by Metaliant on 30-04-2008 at 22:33:
In Britain, we have a TV licence, which means that we can watch any TV channel, which is a bit daft since all the channels excluding the BBC channels are independent channels who show adverts, like ITV, Channel 4, Five, etc.
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Posted by Guy on 30-04-2008 at 23:18:
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But it isn't a middle ground. It's not even related. Illegally downloadong something you're supposed to pay for is piracy... is theft. A criminal act. Downloading freeware to use is NOT.
I don't see how the concept of freeware relates to this topic at all. Unless by that you're talking about the people that try to sell freeware for money, which is a criminal act.
I have no problem with people using freeware. I only have a problem with people PIRATING things. If the use of freeware causes a company to lose a sale on an item they want you to pay for, fair enough. That's the basis of competition. If a company loses a sale because you pirated their product, that's not okay. That's stealing.
And metaliant - I'm a little confused by what you're saying. Do you mean you have to pay to watch TV? If so, that's just like cable TV over here. Hundreds of channels, all plagued by advertisments because they're all greedy for that little bit of extra cash. And you have to pay for it. We do however have public channels you don't have to pay for. But you still pay for them by wasting your time watching advertisments.
It's why I have a large collection of DVDs - I hate being interrupted half way through my show to watch 15 minutes of ads. Plus I get to see them whenever I like then.
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Posted by Metaliant on 01-05-2008 at 08:47:
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Hopefully this TV licence will explain it better than me. Just go down to the United Kingdom section.
The TV licence is about 139.50 per year and if you are over 60 if your are a woman or 65 if you are a man or blind, then there is a concession.
There is 1 TV licence per household no matter how many TVs you have in your home and the licence fee will pay for the BBC for it's TV, radio and internet services, unlike the other TV stations which are free because of the adverts but if you have a TV and don't watch the BBC, then will still need the TV licence.
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Posted by Rory on 01-05-2008 at 23:02:
I've been reading this thread with much apprehension, especially since this is one topic that I really hate a lot. Add the fact that there is mention of "smashing heads"... But I just want to get my opinion in since I've observed that I'm pretty sure most, if not all of the people who have commented in this thread, including the poster, either come from the U.S. or Europe. No, I most definitely will not be replying to any responses to this, my reply. I feel too strongly about this matter to want to get inadvertently drawn into a flame war because of this. Besides, I would rather make my opinions known to the people who would matter in this issue, namely the companies themselves.
I'm not a gamer. I have better things to do with my time than play video games. As for computers, I'm not that technically savvy enough to know about all these softwares. But, frankly, I won't be hypocritical about it. When it comes to DVDs of films and specifically anime, I BUY PIRATES. See? I even put it in caps. I won't even bother to deny it. BUT...there's a reason for this.
You see, I live in the Philippines, a tiny archipelago in Southeast Asia where piracy is so damned rampant. One of the common misconceptions that ranters have is that the reason why people patronize pirates is because it's cheap. It's true, it IS cheap. BUT...what if pirates are the ONLY choices that you have?
I love anime, I love films. I collect them like crazy. And I know a lot of people who are the same as me. The problem is there are NO DISTRIBUTORS of the films and anime I love in this country or within the Asian region. I'm sure you'll say why not order from LEGAL distributors in the U.S.? Most legal distributors prefer international credit cards. I don't own one, and most of the Filipinos I know don't own such cards either. Then, just look at the cost. Ordering a DVD in the U.S. costs $25-30 and this excludes shipping. To an American, hey, $25 to 30 is no big deal. But to an average Filipino living on a shoestring budget, your $25-30 is equivalent to PhPeso 1,050 to 1,260, and that's enough to feed a family of five for 3 DAYS!
Let's take a look at U.S. shipping rates. Shipping plus tax costs just as much as the item you're ordering if you order stuff from the U.S. Double the costs I mentioned earlier and you could just see how big a financial burden it is.
Now, let's say we have a legal distributor within my region. Since I order manga from a Japanese distributor, I'll use this as an example. I originally placed an order for a manga with an American distributor. The title would've cost me $25, shipping is $16. But when I found this Japanese distributor, this same item is $12.50 and shipping is $10, so I immediately cancelled my order with the American distributor. Can you see the huge difference when you have a distributor WITHIN your area? To my frustration, however, when it comes to DVDs, the Japanese distributors in Asia sell them without English subtitles. You have to order...AGAIN...in the U.S.
Oh, I should mention something also. There are comic book stores here that supposedly sell LEGAL anime and music CDs. My goodness, for a person like me who is hankering for Originals, I bought their claims hook, line and sinker. I bought a "Yukikaze" anime DVD. It looks original. Nice packaging too. But when I played it, the grammar in the subtitles was so appalling. Guess what? It's a super expensive pirate from Hong Kong.
I am the official writer for the anime channel Animax, and as such, I've had contact with anime production companies. I've told them time and time again -- THE U.S. AND EUROPE ARE NOT THE ONLY MARKETS FOR THEIR PRODUCTS. Anime, gaming, software companies complain about piracy. I've seen the Intellectual Property Office conduct raids in two streets here in Manila that sells pirated DVDs and music CDs. BUT these same companies ARE NOT doing anything about meeting the demand and coming up with affordable product costs for the regions, LIKE ASIA, where they are losing millions. I DO NOT want to say that they're greedy, jacking up licensing costs the way they are doing. However, if you meet the demand at reasonable costs, the more you will rack up profits. That's simple economics.
Thankfully, I'm glad that at least Gonzo Animation is taking some of my suggestions and have recently tied up with Sony Entertainment for anime distribution within Asia. AT LAST! But what about the other companies?
Sadly, I and many others like me are FORCED to buy pirates. We do WANT to buy originals. But as I said, what choice do we have? But I do have to say this. If there's anything that I hate the MOST is certain people saying that "only those who could afford it" should be able to enjoy games, anime, music, etc. That's a very snobbish view, like making yourself an emperor among the lowly peons. I'm pretty sure that many of these companies NEVER envisioned their products to be enjoyed solely by the affluent. I do hope these companies would realize that they would be able to profit more if they also keep in mind the purchasing powers of those in the middle and lower income brackets, from whom they are losing millions of dollars to pirates.
They want us to buy Original, then help us be able to buy Original!
Posted by Guy on 02-05-2008 at 10:02:
Whilst my argument was mostly aimed at people within america, english speaking europe and australia, not asia, I feel somewhat... angered by your response.
Firstly, my head smashing statement was reguarding people who use the abovementioned excuses to remove blame from themselves. These people are usually quite wealthy enough to pay for the things they steal, but they steal it anyway because they can do it easily and easily get away with it. I'm disgusted by them.
You also misunderstand my situation - a video game at full retail costs enough money to feed a family of 5 well for at least a week where I live, which is neither part of europe or america. We're actually almost part of asia. Oh, and a single anime DVD generally costs enough to feed a person richly for 3 days.
So, with my tiny checkout operator income (this is a job people look down on me for doing too, so don't even try to think I'm trying to lord my affluence over you), after paying my rent (which is rather steep as we're currently suffering a housing crisis), for my food, for my electricity gas and water, I don't exactly have much money left. I hunt for bargains. On the internet, in stores. I can usually find legal, legitimate things cheap enough for my budget, but I'm generally not going through chain stores or whatever, why you would is somewhat beyond me, they are well known for loving to overprice. Oh, and I don't have a credit card either, I don't have a large enough income to apply for one - paypal accepts regular bank accounts.
I don't buy from places with obscene postage - postage is another thing people love to overcharge on. Unless I'm buying something large and heavy, postage is actually never very much. It's often cheaper for me to buy from overseas than within my own country because people within my country think overcharging is a good idea. But of course, I'm not phillipino, and none of my phillipino friends are online right now to ask about it, so I wouldn't know what kind of taxes are added to things entering your country.
I'm not even going to bother going into economics of big business, but I can tell you now that blaming big business isn't the answer.
And finally, as for having better things to do with your time than play games, if you're not enjoying life, why are you living? If you can shrug off games as worthless so easily, why not shrug off all other forms of enjoyment completely? Why are you watching anime? Is it REALLY so superior?
Edit; Oh, and if you're going to keep pirating I suggest that rather than support criminals by giving bootleggers your cash (people who should be importing originals and showing big business that your country wants that stuff), download things free off the internet.
And dvdpacific.com has reasonable postage and is reasonably cheap, it's a local and completely legit business too. You can still get better prices on some of it off ebay or through more complicated bargain hunting techniques etc. if you're not lazy, but whatever.
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Posted by kimiko on 02-05-2008 at 16:36:
Wow! I can see you two both feel very passionate about this and bring up very good points for debate on either side. I agree with both of you...I'm very middle of the road on this subject.
Rory, I think as all of us are Gatch fans and here in North America we are finally able (and oh so thankful!) to purchase our Gatch 1 eps in a language we can understand. We all feel for you. We know what it's like. I remember years ago being on the BotP ML and a sweet gal from Alabama took the time & expense (which she refused the $$$ order I sent her!! She said it was an Xmas pressie!) to make me some VHS tapes of both BotP & Gatch. She was the only one on that entire list that offered to share with another fan! I'm forever grateful to her!
I have no problem with bootlegging when 'Big Business' is too stupid or if there's not enough profit or whatever the reason is...to ignore an oportunity market.
I work retail....I don't have a business degree..but one of my duties is to perform price changes. Here in Canada with the value of our dollar going up, we were promised that costs of consumables would drop across the board. I've seen many prices on 'select' items go down ie blankets. That's great if you need a new blanket! But the loss of that profit is re-routed to other items being marked up in price.
Hell, any consumer can tell when they're being fucked around and gouged up the a$$ for necessities...IE GAS!!! Now that affects the prices of everything and it's only going up! Today I bought deodorant that used to cost me $2.27 CAD...for $3.29!!!!! 
As for supporting criminals, possibly terrorist organisations, yes Guy, you're right. Personally, I do blame big business and our governments for allowing such gouging to happen.
If I had a dime for everytime I heard..."It's nothing personal, it's just business..." I'd be filthy stinking rich! It's not 'personal' when I got laid off my full-time job, went to collect my unemployment insurance which I don't have a choice whether I want to pay into it or not, and then get told I make too much money with my part-time job ($500/month) which I took in the first place just to make ends meet, that I'm not elligable to collect! Again...
It's not 'personal' when the bank forcloses on your house. It's not 'personal' when you're evicted. It's not 'personal' when you have to go to the foodbank to eat. It's not 'personal' when your friend needs meds, you go to get it for her because she had to go on welfare and can't afford to buy gas, insurance etc.., and you then get treated like a piece of sh*t/junkie by the pharmacist with uber attitude, who seems to have a problem dispensing his legal narcotics, or providing 'service with a smile', even though you have all the proper documents!
White collar criminal? I see no difference, just a whole lotta grey! I think the government should legalize prostitution, gambling, drugs, whatever, tax the shit out of it and use that money to fund our social programs while helping the police crack down on criminals.
Right now on TV, Microsoft is trying to do a corporate takeover of Yahoo....Just how much more do they want to control? Remember it's nothing 'personal'...
Well on to other things...like planning what I'm going to be planting in my garden and buying from local farmers, so I can avoid big business 'prices' while trying to do my part in being green as possible.
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Posted by Metaliant on 02-05-2008 at 16:50:
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Like Kimiko, I am in the middle of the road on this subject and also work in retail and have heard customers say that Homebase, whom I work for are far too expensive and they will go to either B $ Q and Wilkinsons, 2 more DIY stores which are a bit cheaper.
I have also noticed that everything will go up every year and do seem more expensive than when I was a kid or when I moved out to my own place.
There are Sci-Fi films and TV programmes such as Robocop, Blade Runner, Rollerball and even Aliens that have big coroporate companies which are the real governments adn I can see that could be the future unfortuantely.
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Posted by Guy on 02-05-2008 at 21:48:
You all do realise that the reason the prices of things is going up is because fossil fuel is RUNNING OUT don't you?
This debate isn't about big business being bastards - I already said I boycott businesses that are particularly big and corrupt, hell we could make a WHOLE NEW TOPIC out of that.
This is about piracy and the fact that people choose to pirate when they could easily get originals. This is about the sales figures that indicate that console games, which take some fucking around to pirate, are massively outselling equal or better PC games which are so piss easy to pirate it's not funny.
PC gaming is a dying industry - when a company has to put the consumer second to piracy protection as with bioshock, just so they can make ends meet, there's something seriously fucking wrong.
None of the dead companies I mentioned were big fat corporations who could deal with a little piracy - they were all small fry, who NEEDED those sales. Which is one reason why they folded.
Now you tell me that there's a middle road for those guys. Tell me how horrible and corrupt they were for asking $30 - $100 for a game, and then going bankrupt because piracy decimated their profit.
Tell me there's a middle road for those starting out musicians who need every record sale they can get to be kept on by the label they fought so hard to get. Tell me there's a middle road for the software companies that are forced to jack up their prices because there are more people using pirated versions of their software than legit versions, so they can keep on going.
Go on, just try telling me that.
I have the opportunity to pirate, to steal, to do all kinds of petty criminal acts. I work in a fucking grocery store, and the LAW prevents us from stopping thieves we've caught unless we saw them put the stolen item into their bag. And then we're not allowed to detain them if they run for it. I could use that intimate knowledge of regulations to my advantage easily and live off stolen food, and spend all my money on vices like booze and smoking and illegal drugs.
But I don't.
Last I heard from our store manager, we lost $800, 000 worth of stock to petty thieves in the last financial 1/4, mostly in confectionary and makeup. The owners of our store chain were threatening to close the store down because it's too high risk to keep us there.
I could lose my shitty job which is just barely keeping me off the streets as it is, and because I'm a casual worker I don't get anything if they fire me. That's the whole point of casual, they can fire you at any time they like without a reason. And if I get fired and go apply for government support until I can get another job, I won't get it for a minumum of 8 weeks, and then only if I pass some kind of circumstances test they refuse to elaborate on, or unless I get a doctor to lie and tell them I was fired because I became temporarily disabled.
What happened to all those people in the bankrupted companies? What happened to all those musicians who failed, what happened to all those film companies that couldn't recover costs?
Try telling them about the 'middle ground'.
Edit; I thought I'd elaborate on our average thief and neighbourhood. I have only ever seen a homeless looking person once in this neighbourhood, and he was probably drunk because he was sleeping outside the pub. Every time I catch someone they are either an elderly greek (the kind that think think anyone but their own nationality is scum, there are a lot of them here. They refuse to learn english and sneer, sometimes spit at anyone who isn't greek.) a child that probably doesn't know any better, or someone who is without question a drug abuser.
Most come in the drug abuse variety. They come in with bloodshot eyes, slurred speech and stare wildly at invisible things, they smell, they're thin and dirty - they steal snacks and makeup (and they resell it at weekend markets). Then it's the elderly greeks that think their money is too good for us - they steal anything they can hide in their clothes or shopping jeeps. Then children, they steal snacks and toys.
Oh, and there are so many greeks here that most of the graffiti is in greek even though it's supposed to be an english speaking country. And I'm engaged to a greek, so don't try telling me I'm racist.
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Posted by Rory on 02-05-2008 at 22:51:
Consider this to be my very LAST post in this thread. Frankly, I don't want to waste my time on this any more. It's obvious you feel strongly about this issue. I respect that. But I personally don't see any need to lower myself to your level. You strike me as a very combative and judgmental person. You scoff at my being an anime fan? My reply to this is: SO WHAT? I may be an anime fan, but I DO NOT watch it 24/7 the way you are implying. What I meant when I said that I considered that I find video games being a "waste of my time" is that I prefer to do things that are PRODUCTIVE. Sorry, but I don't find playing video games productive at all. Yes, you may say that watching anime is non-productive, but do you know me well enough to know exactly what I do in my spare time? No, I don't think so. And I won't even bother to bore you with the details of my exceptionally busy life. I think it's pointless to do so.
The MAIN POINT I wanted to drive at is that you complain about the state of piracy, but that's all you're doing, sad to say. In fact, in all the forums I've visited, whether it be anime, games or whatever, all I read are rants and complaints about piracy, but all the complainants are not doing anything or offering anything concrete to help solve this problem. At least, I can honestly say that I am struggling to come up with solutions for my country through my interactions with the Intellectual Property bodies in my country and various anime and movie companies within the Asian region. When I don't like something, I ACT. I don't go off on a ranting spree. Can you say the same for yourself?
Goodbye, Guy! I wish I could say it had been fun writing to you.
Posted by Guy on 04-05-2008 at 01:20:
Okay, so I was irritated with your first post which was unneccesarily vicious against me, as a person. Your second post just makes me laugh. You must be completely blind to yourself.
I'm not scoffing at you being an anime fan. I like anime myself, for christs sake I'm a member in a Gatchaman forum. Why would I scoff at you for liking anime?
What I was doing was trying to point out how much of a jerk you were being - you could have said 'games aren't my cup of tea', but no, you went all out and said 'I have better things to do with my time than play video games'. That is very blatantly an attack on me, seeing as my entire post is about games and gaming.
I could go on to point out more, but I really can't be bothered. You know what you were doing, and anyone reading should be able to feel the hostility of your post.
Now, your recent post - you like to do things productive? And you imply anime is more productive than videogames. Just wtf kind of logic are you using to think that? They are essentially the same thing! Two different forms of entertainment. Both are used to escape reality, both are used for enjoyment, both are hobbies, etc.
'Course, seeing as I feel like being a jerk back to you right now, I'll point out that scientific studies show that when you're watching a movie or TV show your brain is less active than when it's SLEEPING. With games because you're taking an active role, your brain is still as active as when it's awake, if not more so. Also, games can teach puzzle solving skills, hand eye coordination, help increase the attention span of people with ADD, and I could go on and on.
I really don't remember when I said or implied you watched anime 24/7, let alone thought it to myself at all. Your question 'do you know me well enough to know exactly what I do in my spare time?' - DO YOU KNOW THAT ABOUT ME? HUH? I know I sure didn't post my weekly schedule. If this is what you meant by productive, then your agument is illogical - what you do with your time when you're not playing games or watching anime has nothing to do with how productive it is to play/watch games/anime.
Oh, and how do you know that I'm not being active against piracy? I trawl ebay all the time reporting pirated goods. I tried asking the police if there were any way I could help them fight against piracy as a civilian. I tried contacting a few companies to ask how I could help them.
And finally, do you know why big business won't release stuff in your country? BECAUSE IT IS SATURATED IN BOOTLEGS. A COMPANY CANNOT VIABLY COMPETE WITH THE PRICE OF BOOTLEGS. The cost of the production of an anime, the cost of employing all the staff involved, the cost of dubbing, subtitling, the cost of copyrighting, trademarking, and defending those things and then manufacturing the DVDs to a reasonable level of quality is far greater than the simple production cost of a low quality DVD and a shitty case.
Why don't you try kicking the bootleggers out so there's actually a place for the anime companies instead of freely giving your money to bootleggers because the anime companies haven't risked attempting to fight them yet?
My complaint is against people making a MORAL CHOICE between illegally downloading and legally purchasing. The whole 'why won't they release it in my country' thing is a huge topic in itself and deserves it's own thread. Hell, I'd post in it. There's plenty of stuff (yes, mostly games, but also anime and foreign movies) that never gets over here, or when it does get here it's so heavily censored or so poorly translated it's not even worth pirating. I'm forced to import a lot of stuff because of that - and I hate it.
But hey, you don't care what I have to say and probably aren't reading anymore.
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Posted by Cep on 06-05-2008 at 09:08:
I will throw a few pence worth on the fire here, I will sometimes obtain pirated copies of movies, mostly given away for free in fact.
If I like the movie I will most likely buy the original version, this is also true of music and games, though I almost always buy original games.
From my point of view until the large corporations start to price things at a reasonable cost I am not willing to pay for something I am not 100% sure I am going to like.
There is also the fact that these corporations deliberately hike up the cost of goods for no other reason then the fact I am in the UK. The fact I can travel to France or neighbouring Eire and buy the same goods at about 25 - 45% less is in my mind another reason why piracy, especially in rich nations is rife, people are getting sick with being ripped off.
Most bootleggers are not the governmental stereotyped terrorists/crime families that they are made out to be. In fact in recent studies both here and in the US it is actually suggested that piracy of material is 83% more down to the average Joe Bloggs, whether that's downloading music, ripping a CD or even photocopying posters.
Most piracy is actually done through complete ignorance, yes you may wish to argue this but it is true, in fact SONY BGM stated that last year they believed most of the piracy of their music was done by children aged between 8 - 14 who did not realise copying or passing their MP3 music to friends was in fact piracy.
Video game piracy is a bit different to music, so lets move onto that.
I think in general Video game piracy is not as bad as it once was, yes the Internet has now allowed file sharing sites, crack sites and others but in general its a lot less then it used to be back in the days of the first CDs and the good old floppy disk.
I can't actually remember anyone I knew having more then one or two original games for their computers when I was younger, almost all of them were copies made by a friend.
Nowadays I can't recall the last time I saw a pirated video game, I think this is because people understand what they are paying for nowadays, the quality of games is better, the time spent making them is better, the budgets for the games and the launches are bigger and better, therefore people do pay for them.
This is very much in contrast to piracy of clothing, music and in certain cases films where the prices for those goods far exceed the reasonable price they should be, why pay £800 - £1000 for a Louie Vitton handbag when you can get a better made copy from Thailand for less then £30?
Yes you still get people pirating but unfortunately that is just the way of things, its been going on since the Romans and I doubt it will ever change.
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Posted by Ebonyswanne on 06-05-2008 at 10:51:
Piracy.... mmm I live in Australia Guy and Rory, so you know most of tourists will come home with a hand full or more of DVD's from Asia...
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Posted by kimiko on 06-05-2008 at 11:38:
I agree with you Cep..I won't cough up big bucks until I'm sure I'm 100% with it.
My bitching about gas prices and hydro for that matter...is it's a necessity and it's out of control. Sure eventually fossil fuels will run out. So why aren't the hybrid cars being marketed better? Because the car companies and the oil companies don't want to lose their cash cow. Everytime there was a terrorist alert, or hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico, the prices spiked and now what is their reason this time?
What gets me especially being Canadian is that we have the largest deposit of oil sands in the world next to the Persian Gulf in Alberta. We can get the oil out of the sand...but we don't have the refineries to make gasoline so our oil is sold to the U.S. where it is refined and sold back to us as gasoline. ??? To me this is assinine! Like build some fucking refineries already and take out the middle man, so you have not one but 2 natural resources to export! And you don't have to haul it back and forth across the border.
Ah but I forgot the polictics and that so-called Free Trade or NAFTA agreement.
So when we do run out of oil, and have to rely solely on recharging our hybrids on electricity or water, solar, wind, whatever... you can bet your local utilities company is going to be a member of an 'OPEC'-like organization, and your hydro bill is going to skyrocket!
I recently saw a hybrid that runs on Canola oil....smells like your cooking french fries though.... 
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Posted by amyltrer on 06-05-2008 at 17:08:
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Does it sheds any less pollution? I mean oil it's a hydrocarbon. By combustion it cleaves to CO2 and water. But CO2 will still head towards the upper athmosphere so the rythm of global warming won't decrease. That after all was one of the main benefits of the alternative fuels!
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