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Posted by Transmute Jun on 09-08-2007 at 22:19:

Question: Gatch II opening credits

I was just wondering about the Gatch II opening credits... were they the same throughout the entire run of the show? The theme song says 'Ken Joe Jun Jinpei Ryu' even though for the first 3 (almost 4) eps, it was 'uncertain' as to whether or not Joe was still alive. And there are pictures of Joe in the opening sequence as well.

I know that Tatsunoko blew it by having a radio drama revealing that Joe was alive, before Gatch II was ever aired, but did they blow this as well? It seems like it would have completely destroyed any suspense. Heck, my four year old was convinced Joe was alive in the first 2 eps, and the show wasn't even in English!

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Posted by tatsunokofan on 10-08-2007 at 00:56:

Hi all!

To answer your question in the general sense, though not the specific area you're talking about, the opening credits to Gatchaman II were changed twice during the run of the series, but these were visual changes only. The song remained the same throughout all 52 episodes of the series. The visuals were changed with episode #2 (Where some shots that were very, very rough in the first episode were replaced with new, smooth animation), and with episode #37, where about a third of the shots were replaced with new animation.

To answer the specific intent of your question, yes, Tatsunoko blew the secret of Joe's return with the opening credits. Honestly, they didn't seem to make much of an effort to hide that Joe was going to be coming back. As you pointed out, the radio drama revealed this two and a half months before that episode of Gatchaman II aired, and Gatchaman II Chief Director Hiroshi Sasagawa was saying that Joe would be back in an interview in Animage magazine that was released around the same time the radio drama episode aired.

From all appearances, it seems as though all Tatsunoko tried to keep secret was the exact circumstances which allowed Joe to return. Even with that, they let the cat out of the bag early, though just barely. An article appeared in the April, 1979 issue of Animage that discussed the events of Gatchaman II #24, where what happened to Joe is revealed to the audience. That episode aired on March 11th, and the issue of Animage went on sale on March 10th, so fans had one day to read the answer to the secret before seeing it unveiled before their eyes.

James

P.S. You forgot to mention the two shots of Joe that appear in the ending credits of the series. Yes, those appeared in the first three episodes as well. Speaking of those ending credits, Isao Sasaki is credited for his work as Joe starting with the second episode of the series, two full episodes before Joe's official return.

Posted by Ebonyswanne on 10-08-2007 at 01:25:

Was there much mention about what the team did during the break between Gatch 1 and gatch 2??

Were they fully decommissioned or did they still work for the ISO??? A lot of fics get written about this time, and it is good for the imagination.

But I have wondered of it had been talked about in the series it self of Gatch 2.

I know this is probably a bit off topic but James I am just Curious.

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Posted by tatsunokofan on 10-08-2007 at 02:04:

The series actually says very little about what happened with the Ninja Team between the two series. In the first episode, Nambu comments that they have continued their training and are ready for action, but not much else. The world-at-large believes they have disbanded, though, judging by the comments made by one of the I.S.O. delegates.

The radio drama has an episode set between the two series. This episode briefly touches on the Ninja Team members coming to grips with Joe's apparent death and preparing a grave for him by those of his parents. It then moves onto them having to get rid of the original God Phoenix because it has suffered too much metal fatigue to be repaired much further. To give it a suitable sendoff, they sink it in the ocean at the same spot where Crescent Coral Reef went down. Following this sad farewell, Dr. Nambu surprises them by appearing with G-Town, their new base. Once the Ninja Team boards G-Town, Nambu introduces them to their new G-Mecha. Nambu explains that there is the chance that other threats might arise that only their skills can combat, so he wants to begin their training at once. As they launch in the New God Phoenix, Nambu tells them of their individual machines and introduces them to Pimer. As they launch in their various mecha, only the G-2 is left behind without a pilot. As the episode closes, the Narrator tells us that Governor X is heading back toward Earth.

And that is the closest thing to an official story of what happens between the two series that we ever got, though it never appeared or was referenced in the series itself. As matters stand, the appearance of the original God Phoenix in Gatchaman II #47 works in contrast to the events of the radio drama. Still, it makes for an interesting story, and one I wish had been included in the series, even as a flashback it would have been nice!

James

Posted by Ebonyswanne on 10-08-2007 at 02:42:

I agree James, I think that if they ever did do an udate of the series they would do a bit more on personal lives as well as the missions. I love the missions, but to know some more about the characters themselves would be good.

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Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up- Pablo Picasso.

Posted by Transmute Jun on 10-08-2007 at 15:16:

Thanks for your response, James! I knew you would have all of the answers! Bowdown

I guess their thought was that since Joe was popular, making it clear that he would be back would garner more viewers? In any case, it's all moot now, but I guess in this atmosphere of TV now (with cliffhangar season files, shows like Lost that love the suspense) it was just surprising to me.

ITA that some information about what they did between the wars would be fun, but frankly I'm glad they didn't bury the old GP in canon. And even if they had, you'd think that the team would want to keep the (de-transmuted) versions of their original vehicles.

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Posted by tatsunokofan on 10-08-2007 at 18:53:

Hi all!

quote:

I guess their thought was that since Joe was popular, making it clear that he would be back would garner more viewers?

Or perhaps that it was such a no-brainer that they figured everyone would guess he was coming back anyway.

quote:

In any case, it's all moot now, but I guess in this atmosphere of TV now (with cliffhangar season files, shows like Lost that love the suspense) it was just surprising to me.

Which, as you realize, was not the case back in 1978, unless you want to consider it a 4 year long cliffhanger!

quote:

I'm glad they didn't bury the old GP in canon.

Which leads to the question of whether or not the radio dramas should be considered canon? I think they tend to be ignored and discounted because of their lack of availability to most fans, but is that really fair?

Certainly the parody episodes, which were played for laughs, wouldn't be canon, but what about the "straight" episodes? Most of these were adaptations of episodes from the original series (#'s 1, 11, 20, 52~53, and 103~105, specifically) or stories that would be utilized in Gatchaman II (As episode #'s 1~5 and 7). These modified things somewhat to allow for the differences between a TV production and a radio production, but mostly kept the stories intact (With the biggest change that immediately leaps to mind being that Katse was on Turtle King in the first episode). The only non-adaptation/non-parody stories in the series were the one that fills in the gap between the two series and the one that featured a pair of stories written by fans as part of a "You Write Gatchaman" contest. Should any of these be accepted as part of the canon or not?

One argument in favor of accepting them is that the series was authorized by and produced in conjunction with Tatsunoko. As such, of the 12 episodes for which writer credits are known, 11 of them were done by Jinzo Toriumi and Satoshi Suyama, the Planners and Chief Writers for the Gatchaman TV series (These two were involved in 45 of the original 105 stories, as well as 21 Gatchaman II episodes and 14 Gatchaman Fighter episodes, including most of the key episodes of all three series). The 12th episode was the "You Write Gatchaman" stories, written by Sumie Kozakai and Satoshi Yoshida. Also, the voice cast was made up of the original TV series voice cast, at least for the main characters (The Ninja Team, Nambu, Red Impulse, X, and Katse).
With credits like these involved, can these be ignored?

On the other hand, the episodes do make some alterations to what we saw in the series. While some of these are necessary because of the different format, should those changes be ignored? And what about the contradition of events concerning the appearance of the God Phoenix in Gatchaman II? How do you reconcile those events? Or do you simply say, "There's a story there, but we weren't told what it was." And do the existence of the parody episodes, which can't be fit into the series in any reasonable fashion (Unless you seriously believe that the Ninja Team and Gallactor get together to play baseball or that X and Katse visit the Snack Jun) invalidate any hope of including the radio drama in canon?

I'm curious to hear the opinions of others about this.

quote:

you'd think that the team would want to keep the (de-transmuted) versions of their original vehicles.

When Nambu explains that the God Phoenix is on its last legs, he says that the individual vehicles are in similar condition, prompting Jinpei to ask specifically about his Helicobuggy. Ken comments that, after having been shot at, transforming back and forth, and enduring the Firebird, it's not surprising that they're worn out. With the abuse they've taken, no matter how much care is given to them, they would eventually fall apart and collapse. Rather than seeing that happen, they decide to bury them all at sea.

James

Posted by Transmute Jun on 10-08-2007 at 19:59:

Well, going by Star Trek (my other fandom), TV episodes are considered the primary canon. Next comes the movies, and after that the novels and other sources. So there are different levels of canon. If there are any disagreements about canon, the answer from the 'more primary' source is used.

Now that's not to say that there are not disagreements. One of the biggest ones is that the depiction of the Trill race in TNG is VERY different from the depiction of that race on DS9. But since the TNG ep was just one episode, and DS9 was a number of eps, including a main character (later a second main character), the DS9 version is seen as canon, and the TNG ep ignored, just as the 'canon' writers do.

So.... not having any knowledge, (other than what you have just told us) of the radio dramas, I would think of them as being 'secondary canon'.

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